A message of support for Matthew LaClair

[Guest Paul]

There are two sides to EVERY argument. That does not mean they're equally valid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point. There are two ends to every horse, too.

[Guest Paul]

Daniella,

I think you are completely correct. This issue was blown way out of proportion. Matthew LaClair as well as Mr. P were wrong, but Matthew took it farther than needed. Situations like this probaby go on more often than told and I'm sure not every kid that disagrees birngs it to the press and secretly records the class. As a teacher it is Mr. P's job to answer the questions that students ask. Nobody is forceing Matt to agree and no one held him back from debating what was said. Matt is wrong and this issue had no reason to go public.  -- Meg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Meg and Daniella, obviously you either (1) don't know what the dominionist movement is and how dangerous it is to our Constitutional system of government and religious freedom for everyone (not just the majority) or (2) are a part of it. We have no power to blow anything out of proportion on our own, even if what that is. Obviously, the media who are covering this agree it is important news. So do the excellent attorneys who are donating their time to work on this case. You may think it's just an issue between a teacher and a student, but it isn't. Look again with open eyes, and you will see.

[Strife767]

Daniella,

I think you are completely correct. This issue was blown way out of proportion. Matthew LaClair as well as Mr. P were wrong, but Matthew took it farther than needed.

On the contrary, Matthew took it only as far as he had to. The problem is that Mr. P. and company's lack of action forced him to have to 'take it farther' in order to get some justice.

Situations like this probaby go on more often than told and I'm sure not every kid that disagrees birngs it to the press and secretly records the class.

lol, nice try at subtly rearranging the order of events. It was:

1. Recording

2. Writing letter about the issue

3. Meeting with Mr. Paszkiewicz, Ms. Wood and Mr. Somma (iirc)

4. Lack of any real corrective action from Paszkiewicz OR the Board for months

5. Bringing the issue to the media

Paszkiewicz and the Board's lack of action gave Matthew no other choice.

As a teacher it is Mr. P's job to answer the questions that students ask.

Once more:

1. Paszkiewicz always brought religion up first, before any students asked any questions about it.

2. Students do not have the authority to give their teacher permission to act outside of the Constitution.

3. Just because a student asks doesn't mean a teacher has to answer. Would a teacher not be doing his job if a student asked him his favorite sexual position and he declined to answer?

Nobody is forceing Matt to agree

In case you haven't noticed, not only has neither LaClair claimed this, but it is irrelevant to the issue. Proselytizing is not limited to forced conversion, not by a long shot.

and no one held him back from debating what was said.

Also irrelevant. Giving students the option to disagree does not make preaching in a public school okay. What a ridiculous notion.

Matt is wrong

Nope.

and this issue had no reason to go public.  -- Meg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes it did have a reason to go public. Know what that reason is? Paszkiewicz and the Board's lack of action. This issue went public because they refused to do the right thing--had they, the media would never have caught wind of the issue at all. It is entirely their fault that this issue ever went to the media--if they had done what they should have from the beginning instead of backing Matthew into a corner, that never would have happened. They made their beds; now they have to sleep in them, simple as that.

[Guest Guest]

How can any of you sit here and applaud matt?

(annoying super-large size and color tags removed )

It's actually pretty easy. A fundamental working knowledge of the Constitution makes the decision quite easy, imho.

He doesn't need any applauding nor does he deserve it.

The question is, will your reason why not be anything not already unsuccessfully tried before?

I read what he said about wanting [i]just an apology[/i] well i have to say that I do disagree with him. If all he wanted was just an apology then why would he bring this issue to the press before bringing it to the teacher himself,

He didn't. He had the meeting with Paszkiewicz and company long before the press was aware of the issue.

Man, factual errors already. This does not bode well...

That would have been being more of a man than he is supposedly being now. Now is it all that courageous? No, in all reality it's not.

You think there is no courage in being the one and only person willing to expose a preaching teacher, and to face all kinds of criticism, bullying, even a death threat, for his cause?

Matt is indeed eating up all of the exposure he is recieving , and quite frankly i think that it's making his head bigger than it needs to be.

Of course, what you "think" here is just your own assumption. Matthew hasn't shown any signs of "big head" as a result of the issue.

It's wrong what he is doing, him and his family is blowing this whole situation out of proportion.

Matthew and Paul have acted very slowly and deliberately, giving Paszkiewicz and the Board several chances to fix their mistakes. It is only in the absence of any real corrective action that they have taken the issue 'higher.' Paszkiewicz and the Board are leaving Matthew and Paul no other choice.

Both of tthem were indeed wrong, Mr Paszkiewicz should have been more careful with crossing that line of religion and school, but let's be realistic here people, Jesus christ is apart of history

That's quite debatable, actually. Turns out there is no more evidence for a historical Jesus than there is for a historical Hercules.

Regardless, this is a tired, baseless argument. Even if Jesus was definitely a historical figure, there are some things you're missing:

1. The class is US History. The Biblical Jesus has nothing to do with US history.

2. Paszkiewicz did not speak of his religion in a historical context. I refer you to my signature for an example of the actual nature of his comments. To say that his religious comments were all part of a discussion of history is a blatant lie, plain and simple.

and is in our history books so obviuosly that line isnt pretty thick if you ask me. However, Mathew shouldn't of provoked such a touchy subject, and from the tapings it sure sounds like he did.

Why not? This sounds like hinting at the "Matthew set him up" nonsense. Not only is it ridiculous to suggest that a teacher who's been teaching for 15 years could truly be 'baited' so easily by a high school junior, but it misses the point that _regardless_ of any question ANY student asks, Paszkiewicz is still accountable for what he says while on the job.

-->There is a big difference between standing up for what is right and public humiliation, and it is completely clear that Matt crossed that line.

All Matthew did was make public what Mr. Paszkiewicz himself said. Mr. P. humiliated himself--the recordings contained HIS WORDS, completely unembellished. Not only that, but if Mr. P. and/or the Board had nipped this thing in the bud, the media would have never been made aware of it at all. Their lack of action forced the LaClairs to seek justice through other avenues. They brought it on themselves--there's no two ways about it. It is fact that it was only after a staggering lack of action from both Mr. P. and the Board that the issue was taken to the media etc.

Mr Paszkiewicz is not a bad man, he made a mistake, but ask yourself did this have to be made public?

No, it didn't. If only he had actually owned up to his mistake instead of taking every chance he had to make things right to go on a self-righteous tirade, misquoting founding fathers and generally making himself look not only like a buffoon, but displaying astonishing incompetence in the actual subject matter he's supposed to be teaching. If he had done that, the public would have never known about any of this. It is ultimately Mr. P.'s fault that this issue ever reached the media.

There are far worse things going on schools than a man stating an opinion,

And preaching one's religion in a public school classroom is one of them.

an opinion that would of been allowed to be opposed to.

Public schools are Constitutionally bound to be religiously neutral. End of story. It doesn't matter whether X number of students agree or disagree with the teacher's beliefs--they do not have the authority to give their teacher permission to breach the Constitution.

Mathew and his family are far extreme more than needed to be. He provoked the situation, and now everyone will have to pay for it.

No one forced him to talk about who does and doesn't belong in a location he defines as one of eternal suffering. This is a ridiculous suggestion, and it only becomes moreso the more it's attempted.

There other things in the world that need more attention than this.

Ah, the "this isn't the most important thing in the entire world, therefore we should all completely ignore it" argument. How moronic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Alysha Fields]

I think everyone needs to take a step back look at this issue rationally. Myself, a Catholic Woman, agrees with neither side. Mr. P had no right saying what he feels is the only right way and Matthew is just a boy trying to do what he feels is best. He is also adding fuel to this fire by bringing in the press. He is going about it wrong. And for those who say Daneilla had the order mixed up.. were you, yourself there? How do you know what truley went on in that meeting? Ah, you don't! For those who agree with Mr. P, good for you. For those who agree with Matthew good for you too. But as for me and many others I know we agree with both. Mr. P was stating his opion. Is it not okay for someone to say what they feel? i believe so. Is that in the Constiution? Saying what you feel is what America is about. FREEDOM. We can say what we believe. Not on person has to agree with you but you can say what you feel anyway. I tell you if someone were to tell mu daughter Catholocism is wrong I would have a major problem but it would not be public. There's no need for it. And Matthew LaClair should be repromanded for recording a class in secret.

[Guest Paul]

I think everyone needs to take a step back look at this issue rationally. Myself, a Catholic Woman, agrees with neither side. Mr. P had no right saying what he feels is the only right way and Matthew is just a boy trying to do what he feels is best. He is also adding fuel to this fire by bringing in the press. He is going about it wrong. And for those who say Daneilla had the order mixed up.. were you, yourself there? How do you know what truley went on in that meeting? Ah, you don't! For those who agree with Mr. P, good for you. For those who agree with Matthew good for you too. But as for me and many others I know we agree with both. Mr. P was stating his opion. Is it not okay for someone to say what they feel? i believe so. Is that in the Constiution? Saying what you feel is what America is about. FREEDOM. We can say what we believe. Not on person has to agree with you but you can say what you feel anyway. I tell you if someone were to tell mu daughter Catholocism is wrong I would have a major problem but it would not be public. There's no need for it. And Matthew LaClair should be repromanded for recording a class in secret.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all due respect, and appreciating the even tone of your post, you are incorrect on two points.

First: A public school teacher may not express his religious views in class. It is a violation of the US Constitution, a principle well settled by the Supreme Court in many cases. In other words, it is the law that he may not do it. Just as I am not free as a lawyer to start spouting my political or religious views while representing my client, a public school teacher may not express his religious opinions in class. Because a public school teacher represents the state, his words speak for the state, so that when he expresses a religious opinion as the authority figure in the classroom, that violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

Second: There is no basis for reprimanding Matthew for anything. He did not violate any rule or law, and without a violation he may not be punished.

[Guest Guest]

Go Matthew! You are so right. Your teacher was completely out of bounds.

[Concerned Mom]

Matthew LaClair should get an award.

The teacher should be fired.

Christians should all receive a lobotomy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christians should all receive a lobotomy?

You lose all credibility when you write such statements such as these. Please...there's no reason to insult every Christian because of one misguided situation. The teacher was clearly wrong in his choice of statements and mostly in the audience he chose to speak of such topics. As a teacher, he crossed the boundaries of forcing his beliefs on our youth. It's not Christianity that is the problem, but this one man's poor choices. I AM a Christian and I can see where he went wrong. This young boy felt his rights were being violated and he stood up for what he believed in. It's a freedom of speech issue and mainly a freedom of religious speech for our children, for which kearny Board of Ed. has no written policies. I'm not saying that I agree with the manner in which the boy's family chose to publicize this story....As a mother I think it may have done more harm to him than good, but I understand their concern for their child's Rights. That's what this is all about; our children's RIGHTS at school. Since there are no written policies, children who ARE Christians are being treated just as badly as this boy Paul, who is on the opposite spectrum and doesn't want religion spoken in the schools. The children of both sides of this broad belief system are being treated in the same way by Kearny Administration. They are being ignored and their rights of speech are being silenced. Children have a Right to freedom of speech and a Right to freedom of religion, even in a public school system. Kearny needs to come out of the dark ages and these human rights need to be written in school policy. Our children are being hurt....yes, even our Christian children. I wanted to express that point, because Kearny Board of Ed. administrators are not doing their jobs for our children. They need to listen the FIRST time a child cries out, and not only because they fear a law suit. Policies....we Need New Policies.

[Guest Jason P. Lisa]

I'm from Moonachie, just a couple towns over from Kearny. I just saw this in the Bergen Record today, I can't believe I didn't hear anything about this in recent months. I'd like to say that I honor and support Matthew LaClair and his standing-up against fundamentalists' propaganda and childish ultimatums, and also for enduring all that heinous persecution.

To me it seems only logical to think that if "god" had such power and good will, he would use it to convert the so called "sinners" once they reach his realm. However, hastefully and effortlessly casting them all into an eternity of agony and despair, seems a bit more akin to laziness, hatred and paranoia, rather than omnipotence and benevolence. Looks like even "god" forgot a few of his "seven holy virtues".

Damn those foolish one-dimensional fundies,

Jay

[Guest GOD]

I'm from Moonachie, just a couple towns over from Kearny. I just saw this in the Bergen Record today, I can't believe I didn't hear anything about this in recent months. I'd like to say that I honor and support Matthew LaClair and his standing-up against fundamentalists' propaganda and childish ultimatums, and also for enduring all that heinous persecution.

To me it seems only logical to think that if "god" had such power and good will, he would use it to convert the so called "sinners" once they reach his realm. However, hastefully and effortlessly casting them all into an eternity of agony and despair, seems a bit more akin to laziness, hatred and paranoia, rather than omnipotence and benevolence. Looks like even "god" forgot a few of his "seven holy virtues".

Damn those foolish one-dimensional fundies,

Jay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's GOD to you my child. CAPITAL letters please when referring to ME.

thank you,

GOD

PS I would like my thesaurus back now. thank you once again - have a nice day !

[Guest Guest]

I'm from Moonachie, just a couple towns over from Kearny. I just saw this in the Bergen Record today, I can't believe I didn't hear anything about this in recent months. I'd like to say that I honor and support Matthew LaClair and his standing-up against fundamentalists' propaganda and childish ultimatums, and also for enduring all that heinous persecution.

To me it seems only logical to think that if "god" had such power and good will, he would use it to convert the so called "sinners" once they reach his realm. However, hastefully and effortlessly casting them all into an eternity of agony and despair, seems a bit more akin to laziness, hatred and paranoia, rather than omnipotence and benevolence. Looks like even "god" forgot a few of his "seven holy virtues".

Damn those foolish one-dimensional fundies,

Jay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.bergenrecord.com/page.php?qstr=...UVFeXk3MTMyMDEz

Wow!

[Strife767]

that's GOD to you my child. CAPITAL letters please when referring to ME.

I think you ought to worry first about the capital letter missing at the beginning of your sentence.

[Guest Guest]

I'm from Moonachie, just a couple towns over from Kearny. I just saw this in the Bergen Record today, I can't believe I didn't hear anything about this in recent months. I'd like to say that I honor and support Matthew LaClair and his standing-up against fundamentalists' propaganda and childish ultimatums, and also for enduring all that heinous persecution.

To me it seems only logical to think that if "god" had such power and good will, he would use it to convert the so called "sinners" once they reach his realm. However, hastefully and effortlessly casting them all into an eternity of agony and despair, seems a bit more akin to laziness, hatred and paranoia, rather than omnipotence and benevolence. Looks like even "god" forgot a few of his "seven holy virtues".

Damn those foolish one-dimensional fundies,

Jay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moonachie huh, that says it all.

[Guest ME]

I think you ought to worry first about the capital letter missing at the beginning of your sentence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I, (you know who I AM), am not bound by your laws of grammar. I wish not to come across as "holier than thou" . although I do like being grandiose on occasion, (check out some of MY early work. killer, if you ask ME. I sometimes amaze MYSELF, but then I realize - hey it's all ME! baby...).

so just check yourself there before I take away your ability to type

peace to all........... I AM outta here - right on!

[Strife767]

Moonachie huh, that says it all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bigot.

[Guest Guest_omar_*]

all this is stupid you should read more history books and not be a baby and go cry with dad. the history of the united states is base on religion. all the war had been fought because of religion. this world is going to end because of religion we are killing our self just because a student does not ammit that the country is base in god. in that case dont use the amerucan money becuase it says in god we trust !!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Guest]

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER SHOULD BELIEVE ON HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. JOHN 3:16

GOD THE FATHER WILL JUDGE THOSE WHO PUT DOWN HIS SAINTS. HE IS A MIGHTY AND JUST GOD AND I HOPE I AM AROUND TO SEE THIS SUCH JUDGEMENT.

MR. P ROCKS!

[Guest DingoDave]

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER SHOULD BELIEVE ON HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. JOHN 3:16

GOD THE FATHER WILL JUDGE THOSE WHO PUT DOWN HIS SAINTS. HE IS A MIGHTY AND JUST GOD AND I HOPE I AM AROUND TO SEE THIS SUCH JUDGEMENT.

MR. P ROCKS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You look forward to gloating over the damnation of billions of human beings?

You are one sick puppy!

Once again the vicious underbelly of the Christian fundamentalist mindset is revealed for all the world to see.

Christianity is not a religion of peace. It would be better described as a religion of 'deferred violence', presided over, they imagine, by a psychotic tyrant king.

[Guest 2smart4u]

You look forward to gloating over the damnation of billions of human beings?

You are one sick puppy!

Once again the vicious underbelly of the Christian fundamentalist mindset is revealed for all the world to see.

Christianity is not a religion of peace. It would be better described as a religion of 'deferred violence', presided over, they imagine, by a psychotic tyrant king.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kool-aid alert !!

[Bern]

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER SHOULD BELIEVE ON HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. JOHN 3:16

GOD THE FATHER WILL JUDGE THOSE WHO PUT DOWN HIS SAINTS. HE IS A MIGHTY AND JUST GOD AND I HOPE I AM AROUND TO SEE THIS SUCH JUDGEMENT.

MR. P ROCKS!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You just can't wait to see people eternally tortured and damned, eh? Will you ask God for front row seats? Do you pray requesting to be present at the judgement of the damned?

Born at the wrong time and place. In the old days, as an inquisitor, you could have satisfied your lust to see punishment applied before transferring the wretched soul to your Lord. You must be depressed since this is no longer allowed in our secular part of the world.

You could convert and go to Iran. They're always happy to accept your type.

[Guest Wiggy]

I wonder how the community there would feel if a Muslim teacher decided to exercise their "freedom of religion" and preach Islamic propagand in class. The situation would be somewhat different I would think.

[Guest Guest]

all this is stupid you should read more history books and not be a baby and go cry with dad. the history of the united states is base on religion. all the war had been fought because of religion. this world is going to end because of religion we are killing our self just because a student does not ammit that the country is base in god. in that case dont use the amerucan money becuase it says in god we trust !!!!!!!!!!

57537[/snapback]

Is this a joke? If you're seriously trying to support Mr. P., you are ridiculous. And if you are the kind of people Mr. P. depends on, then he's in trouble and pitiful.

Are you in the 4th grade? Your grammar and logic indicates you never reached 5th grade. And I'm generous when I say that.

[WilliamK]

Is this a joke?

69408[/snapback]

Hard to say.

http://www.rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

[Guest Guest]

You just can't wait to see people eternally tortured and damned, eh? Will you ask God for front row seats? Do you pray requesting to be present at the judgement of the damned?

Born at the wrong time and place. In the old days, as an inquisitor, you could have satisfied your lust to see punishment applied before transferring the wretched soul to your Lord. You must be depressed since this is no longer allowed in our secular part of the world.

You could convert and go to Iran. They're always happy to accept your type.

62526[/snapback]

So what is his type or for that your type? There are two sides to this coin and before you blast someone for his or in that matter her beliefs look at your own.

[Guest Guest]

So what is his type or for that your type?  There are two sides to this coin and before you blast someone for his or in that matter her beliefs look at your own.

69469[/snapback]

I'm not the one waiting for the world to end so I can get a front seat watching others get eternally condemned. Normal people don't get turned on by that.

Sickos.