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civility and religion


Guest Paul

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Guest @smart4u
It is revealing that the highest murder, alcoholism and divorce rates, and the lowest educational achievement scores, are all in the so-called Bible belt. These are facts that are becoming too obvious to ignore.

Again, this is not an attack on Christianity or religion per se, at least not by me. It is simply an observation of some very important facts. I don't think it's an accident. When we examine the psychology and philosophy (if it can be called that) of hard-line fundamentalism, it's not hard to see the damage it does to the thinking process. The implications go to a particular kind of religious thinking, which I believe is dangerous and destructive, not to religious thinking in general.

Several distinctions are important here. One is the distinction between literalism and symbolism. Another is the distinction between religion and theism. Then, on a continuum, it's important to look at how open each individual is to factual information that may not fit with his or her belief system. I think it's important we be aware of these distinctions if we are to make any sense out of what is going on in our culture, and perhaps even in our own lives.

Some of the people posting here seem to have no concept of any of this. This, too, chills me to the bone. These hard-liners vote, and they elected the current president --- twice.

Where do you come up with this crap ?? The City of Newark has more murders

than any area in the bible belt . Everyone knows your anti-christianity, but you should really try to keep your comments at least close to reality.

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I just posted a line about George W. Bush that requires some clarification. I would have pulled it back if I could, but since I can't do that, I'll admit to probably having created an impression I didn't intend, and try to make amends.

I'll start by acknowledging my biases. I am one of millions of Americans who can't even stand to look at the current president. He strikes me (and has from the beginning) as an arrogant spoiled brat who doesn't belong anywhere near power, let alone the presidency. My sister's priest has the same reaction: If Bush appears on TV, this priest will turn off the set, turn the channel, or ask someone else to do it.

Having said that, I recognize that many Americans voted for Bush for a variety of defensible reasons: either they didn't like the alternative, or they are long-time Republicans, or they thought Bush would be stronger on defense, etc. My comments are not directed against them (much as I still can't stand Bush).

The point I intended to make is that tens of millions of Americans voted for Bush precisely because he thinks he knows everything, doesn't give a hoot about the facts, and thumps the Bible the loudest. (Good grief, haven't they read Matthew 6:1-8?) Voting for Bush for those reasons has emboldened him to act according to his worst and most irresponsible inclinations. It is largely because of this in-your-face, the-facts-don't-matter attitude from the radical right that our country is more divided now than perhaps at any time since the Civil War. That is what I was referring to, and I hope it's obvious to most people that this sort of politics has to be stopped.

It's relevant here because many if not most of Paszkiewicz's defenders are thinking and posting along the same lines. That's why I referred to folks who think in that way as having elected Bush twice.

Moral of the story for me: If I have to explain my own pithy comment, it wasn't very pithy.

Hey guys, isn't this great!

Paszkiewicz has got Paul LaClair quoting the Bible and citing it as authority! :D

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Guest Elijah Shaw

Third graders know about the separation of church and state. How can a 38 year old man in the teaching profession not know? The separation between church and state exists to ensure that a governmental bias does not exist in a country of various origins and religions.

Preaching is done in churches not schools. I am outraged at the "action" the school has taken concerning this religious fanatic. If it were a Muslim or Hindu preaching that their religion was the only way, I wonder if they wouldn't be suspended.

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If he wasn't so arrogant with the idiotic attempt at sarcasm I replied to, I wouldn't have talked that way. You reap what you sow--another line from the bible many fundies seem to forget all about when it comes time to be an apologist for a fellow bible-beater. :D

Doesn't make it right. Take some personal responsiblity and apologize for what you've done. Maybe some of the "fundies" will take your lead.

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Guest 2smart4u
I just posted a line about George W. Bush that requires some clarification. I would have pulled it back if I could, but since I can't do that, I'll admit to probably having created an impression I didn't intend, and try to make amends.

I'll start by acknowledging my biases. I am one of millions of Americans who can't even stand to look at the current president. He strikes me (and has from the beginning) as an arrogant spoiled brat who doesn't belong anywhere near power, let alone the presidency. My sister's priest has the same reaction: If Bush appears on TV, this priest will turn off the set, turn the channel, or ask someone else to do it.

Having said that, I recognize that many Americans voted for Bush for a variety of defensible reasons: either they didn't like the alternative, or they are long-time Republicans, or they thought Bush would be stronger on defense, etc. My comments are not directed against them (much as I still can't stand Bush).

The point I intended to make is that tens of millions of Americans voted for Bush precisely because he thinks he knows everything, doesn't give a hoot about the facts, and thumps the Bible the loudest. (Good grief, haven't they read Matthew 6:1-8?) Voting for Bush for those reasons has emboldened him to act according to his worst and most irresponsible inclinations. It is largely because of this in-your-face, the-facts-don't-matter attitude from the radical right that our country is more divided now than perhaps at any time since the Civil War. That is what I was referring to, and I hope it's obvious to most people that this sort of politics has to be stopped.

It's relevant here because many if not most of Paszkiewicz's defenders are thinking and posting along the same lines. That's why I referred to folks who think in that way as having elected Bush twice.

Moral of the story for me: If I have to explain my own pithy comment, it wasn't very pithy.

"Thinks he knows everything and doesn't give a hoot about the facts". Just like yourself, Paul.

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It is revealing that the highest murder, alcoholism and divorce rates, and the lowest educational achievement scores, are all in the so-called Bible belt. These are facts that are becoming too obvious to ignore.

Ehhh ... need more proof Paul. Much of the South is disadvantaged relative to the North from a socio-economic standpoint. Do you have numbers that negate that issue and still show a correlation between the typical beliefs in the Bible Belt and murder, alcoholism, divorce and low test scores?

That being said, there's also a higher incidence of mullets. To me, that's more telling.

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I used my own argument to demonstrate how absurd your argument was. You're just too dim to realize that.

Now you got your feelings hurt? Go cry to your god then.

Nice argument. Must have picked up your debating skills in your 5th or 6th year of high school. By the way, how did it feel being the only 8th grader who could drive?

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It's easy to blame the non-theists along with the theists when the argument degenerates to this. However, the reason this is happening is that theists like Paszkiewicz have assumed that it is their right to force their beliefs on the rest of us. We're fighting back, and I say it's high time. All respect to all respectful theists, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew or whatever. But we've had enough of the arrogance from the fundamentalists.

Retrace the posts and I ask you on which side the arrogance lies.

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Nice argument.  Must have picked up your debating skills in your 5th or 6th year of high school.  By the way, how did it feel being the only 8th grader who could drive?

Jeez, you two are like kindergarteners trading insults at the lunch table. Lay off it! Nobody cares about your private war. Neither one of you are saying anything constructive that contributes to the general discussion, so either start participating in a productive way or leave this thread to people who have something worthwhile to say.

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Doesn't make it right.

I didn't say it was right. I said it was deserved.

Take some personal responsiblity and apologize for what you've done.

What I've done? What exactly _have_ I done? Just because I don't respond to arrogant, bigoted idiocy with a meek voice doesn't mean I have anything to apologize for, honestly. And that doesn't make me a bad person--that makes me a person who has no intention of letting people like that trample all over the rest of us anymore.

Maybe some of the "fundies" will take your lead.

You don't spend much time around them, do you?

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Guest Patriot

Ehhh ... need more proof Paul. Much of the South is disadvantaged relative to the North from a socio-economic standpoint. Do you have numbers that negate that issue and still show a correlation between the typical beliefs in the Bible Belt and murder, alcoholism, divorce and low test scores?

Of course he doesn't. He's totally off the wall with his comments about the bible belt. He spouts this nonsense in his typically wordy fashion to pass it off as fact.

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Ehhh ... need more proof Paul.  Much of the South is disadvantaged relative to the North from a socio-economic standpoint.  Do you have numbers that negate that issue and still show a correlation between the typical beliefs in the Bible Belt and murder, alcoholism, divorce and low test scores?

That being said, there's also a higher incidence of mullets.  To me, that's more telling.

Good reply, and the point about mullets is devastating. :P

Here are some stats for Paul to mull over.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004912.html

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Jeez, you two are like kindergarteners trading insults at the lunch table.  Lay off it!  Nobody cares about your private war.  Neither one of you are saying anything constructive that contributes to the general discussion, so either start participating in a productive way or leave this thread to people who have something worthwhile to say.

Oh yeah, well you smell like doodie!

Just kidding - thought I'd add some levity.

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