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Answers on Kearny HS teacher controversy


Guest Paul

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Guest A Concerned Teacher
Because what we've established—and some of you probably disagree with what I've put on the board; that's okay, you won't be tested on it, you understand, you'll be tested on populism...

The above quotation comes from the transcript posted here, about 3/4 of the way through. As a fellow teacher, I can only say that this statement reminds me of what I say when I veer from my prepared notes. It's a warning sign, signaling that what is to follow concerns a matter close to the teacher's heart—and you know how I know? Because I do it all the time.

Thing is, I teach literature to college students, so my digressions don't concern truth. There's a difference—an important one—between what I do and what Mr. Paszkiewicz did. For example, in my class, an enthusiastic outburst would look like this:

Student: But do you really think Faulkner read Joyce?

Me: Certainly.  In the "Wandering Rocks" chapter of Ulysses—you know what Ulysses is, right?  (students mumbling)  No?  Well, you're in for a treat.  You see, in 1922 James Joyce...

My students benefit from my digressions, because they're learning about literary history in a literature class. I say that not to defend myself, but to indicate my awareness of my own tendency to wax enthusiastic about one of my favorite books. It's an awareness, I should add, that anyone who's ever taught quickly acquires—and it's one Mr. Paszkiewicz obviously possesses, as evidenced by his nervous "don't worry, you won't be tested on this" statement, as well as the five times he asks the class whether anyone feels uncomfortable.

He knows some of them do, but he wants their permission to continue. That may sound strange, but when you lead a discussion, one way to control it is to appear to cede control to your interlocutors. "Look, I know I'm the one here at the board, but you are the ones setting the agenda." It's an effective technique, and one that leads me to believe that Paszkiewicz knows how to teach, how to tease arguments from students who may otherwise be unwilling to voice them. Which is only to say, Mr. Paszkiewicz seems like an effective, if not necessarily good, teacher—which is to say, he knew what he was doing, felt a little guilty about doing it, but proceeded to do it anyway.

Little wonder he denied it when confronted: if I were told to teach A, B and C but decided to teach A, B, and Z instead, I'd be embarrassed too. All of which is only to say that Mr. Paszkiewicz's defenders may not see the signs of guilty indulgence, but every single person who's ever digressed from a lesson plan can see them clear as day.

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Protecting the constitution ??  HUH ??

Paul & Matt,

Good going!

I am happy that you took this opportunity to push back on the rising tide of radical fundamentalists that are attempting to inject religion into every element of public life. I support your reasons for bringing the debate to the public forum and your move to litigate against the teacher and the school system.

Sadly, only public displays and litigation seem to have any lasting effect on policy.

I would like for everyone to consider the type of country you will live in if this sort of behavior was condoned. Although the majority of teachers may currently be Christians, imagine when the Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist populations grow and become a majority. Will you be comfortable with this sort of behavior when it is coming from a Muslim fundamentalist preaching the same fire and brimstone that is being taught in public schools all over Saudi Arabia?

I hope that every one considers the wisdom of the constitutional framers, they were aware what could happen when powerful parts of government are mixed with religion. Although they were virtually all Christians, they knew that in order to protect their faith against a majority comprised of another faith, that they must separate church and state. Otherwise, in a democratic state, the "religion" of the state could change as the population changed. They could only foresee doom in such a scenario, as is evidenced in every country that has a state religion. The members of minority faiths are attacked and denied the same rights under law. I am proud of the differences in the way we govern ourselves. By keeping religion away from power we are assured of equality for all faiths. It means that we can enjoy the freedom of worshiping whatever god we follow without the fear of conversion (forced or otherwise) or persecution by the dominant faith.

To those of you who believe the teacher is being framed, don't worry, he will have his day in court. He will have the opportunity to answer the charges and produce witnesses in his defense. And if he was framed, then I am sure that he may have a case himself.

All is as it should be, and it will all work itself out.

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Guest Occam's Electric Razor
Perhaps the teacher was showing the students critical thinking by citing opposing viewpoints!

Oh, please, don't make crazy suggestions to cover for the teacher - it's pretty obvious what he was doing. I don't think he had comparative anthropology in mind.

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Guest Somebody
I hope that every one considers the wisdom of the constitutional framers, they were aware what could happen when powerful parts of government are mixed with religion.  Although they were virtually all Christians, they knew that in order to protect their faith against a majority comprised of another faith, that they must separate church and state.

The framers were not Christians in the sense that any modern evangelical would understand the word. Most of them were freethinkers, Deists and/or Unitarians who either held popular Christianity in contempt or kept their mouths shut for reasons of political expedience. The evidence for this is pretty sound.

They were, however, quite certain of the problems state endorsement of religion led to. And not only was tolerance of various Christian sects their intent, but any religion (Jefferson was quite clear on this).

The United States, in the sense of the political entity defined by the Constitution, is in no way a Christian nation, in fact, it was specifically and deliberately intended not to be. The ignorance necessary to sincerely assert otherwise is astonishing.

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I am looking to move back to the burbs soon, and after reading this board will do everything in my power to avoid your hateful little town.  I imagine you are all as ugly on the outside as on the inside and that you have little joy, education, or wit. Surely you are all fat and move slowly around the aisles of Big Lots with some sort of tacky purse that you think makes you look rich because it says LV on it or you drive some sort of big machine that guzzles up your low income and my international reputation.  I bet too, that you all have bad breath and haven't read a book besides "The Notebook" in twenty years and don't even know why that is sorta sad-funny. 

From an outsider's perspective, you all seem as if you have hoofs instead of feet and peas instead of brains.  You are the problem with this country, which my family has served abroad.  You are all so freaking dumb that you resort to personal attacks a la Jerry Springer rather than actual discussion, so here I am stooping to your level.  Clearly, you all skipped high school, much less college, and thus never learned how to discuss anything.  That, my stupid druid friends in Kearny, is one of the points of school.  Surely your kids will soon be home after one rough semester at Rowan or Montclair and will explain to you that they are dropping out because they don't fit in with the other kids, who were raised to discuss and think and be citizens of this country.  And you will welcome them, to live in the filth of your basement or rec room and spoil in the same bland idiocy that you rot in.

Ouch! To be fair, only 30-50% of kearny fits this description. The great majority keeps quite so as to not attrack the attention of the minority; lest they be put into a position of defending reason.

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Guest JTANNERU

After reading the NYT article and then slogging through all 16 pages of this discussion, I'm pleased that the bulk of the postings have finally shifted in the LaClairs' favor. It seemed that the Kearny locals who were defending the teacher were confused, to be charitable.

They accused the student of treachery for taping the class, but dismissed his account of the meeting with the teacher and the principal because he had not taped it.

They claimed that the student was a trouble-maker for refusing to recite the pledge, but defended the teacher's "right" to discuss his religion in the classroom.

Personally, I'm glad that our country has patriots like Matt LaClair to defend it from the attacks the religious right has made against free public education. Hopefully, when the rest of us find ourselves in similar situations, we will stand and fight for America the way this boy has.

I also applaud Paul LaClair, for what seems to me to be excellent parenting skills. I would guess that he has encouraged his son in his efforts to expose this fraud, but allowed him to handle it on his own until the school refused to correct the situation. What a great civics lesson! It seems to me that Matt is the only student in this U.S History class who is getting a hands-on introduction to its topic.

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Guest Jherica- Chicago,ill

I think your son did the right thing. Some ppl think that they can just talk about religion everywhere. In some places, its not appropriate. There were many times i, was offended by teachers and faculty members of schools talkin about religion. It serves no purpose in school. That's why there are books. I am in no way against ppl beliefs.. but everybody doesnt believe in god.. there are catholics, muslims and etc... so therefore..religion shouldnt be discussed. If u wanna talk about god.... go to bible school.

I am applauding your fight against separatin school and religion.......

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Guest Janet from Michigan

I have to say to Mr. LaClair and his son that this issue is important enough to all tax-paying Americans to not be swept under the rug in some embarrassed high school principal's office.

It needs to be discussed, and widely, otherwise teachers and others in authority will continue to exhibit these unconscionable and unconstitutional behaviors.

It does not embarrass your community, people. It improves it. The LaClairs did the right thing.

And as I noted in another one of these forums, our Founding Fathers were Christians, and they deemed separation of church and state to be of prime importance. They obviously knew something.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

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You must be living in Iran. This is the United States of America, a VERY christian nation.  97% of american citizens celebrate christmas, our currency reads "In God We Trust".

You must be living in Iran. This is the United States of America, a VERY pagan nation. 97% of american citizens celebrate Halloween.

The US Congress ratified a treaty (Tripoli) that states specifically:

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Christian nation? Don't make me laugh. Given your severe lack of US history knowledge probably, I'm guessing that you went to "school" in Kearny. No?

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The above quotation comes from the transcript posted here, about 3/4 of the way through.  As a fellow teacher, I can only say that this statement reminds me of what I say when I veer from my prepared notes.  It's a warning sign, signaling that what is to follow concerns a matter close to the teacher's heart—and you know how I know?  Because I do it all the time.

Thing is, I teach literature to college students, so my digressions don't concern truth.  There's a difference—an important one—between what I do and what Mr. Paszkiewicz did.  For example, in my class, an enthusiastic outburst would look like this:

My students benefit from my digressions, because they're learning about literary history in a literature class.  I say that not to defend myself, but to indicate my awareness of my own tendency to wax enthusiastic about one of my favorite books.  It's an awareness, I should add, that anyone who's ever taught quickly acquires—and it's one Mr. Paszkiewicz obviously possesses, as evidenced by his nervous "don't worry, you won't be tested on this" statement, as well as the five times he asks the class whether anyone feels uncomfortable. 

He knows some of them do, but he wants their permission to continue.  That may sound strange, but when you lead a discussion, one way to control it is to appear to cede control to your interlocutors.  "Look, I know I'm the one here at the board, but you are the ones setting the agenda."  It's an effective technique, and one that leads me to believe that Paszkiewicz knows how to teach, how to tease arguments from students who may otherwise be unwilling to voice them.  Which is only to say, Mr. Paszkiewicz seems like an effective, if not necessarily good, teacher—which is to say, he knew what he was doing, felt a little guilty about doing it, but proceeded to do it anyway. 

Little wonder he denied it when confronted: if I were told to teach A, B and C but decided to teach A, B, and Z instead, I'd be embarrassed too.  All of which is only to say that Mr. Paszkiewicz's defenders may not see the signs of guilty indulgence, but every single person who's ever digressed from a lesson plan can see them clear as day.

In my opinion, Mr. P does not deserve the reputation of being a good teacher. After reading the transcripts, it became clear to me that he was spouting out a litany of untruths and myths in an apparent effort to dazzle the children with his brilliance. More than once the students had to correct him, and when they voiced challenges to his dogmatic rhetoric, he simply brushed them aside and moved onto another point.

Most of his diatribe amounts to little more than mental masturbation. Lots of self satisfying activity with very little coming out of it.

Plato, he is not!

It sort of comes off as if he is attempting to convince himself, and that maybe his faith is not as firmly rooted as he claims.

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Many thanks to Paul and Matthew for framing this topic so well and inviting a thoughtful and respectful discussion.

Sadly Matthew’s experience with his proselytizing teacher is not an isolated one. It is shocking to listen to the audiotapes and hear a trusted public school educator telling his charges that they belong in hell if they reject his narrow interpretation of Christianity, but it happens to our children every day across the country. Yes, even in New Jersey, far from the so-called Bible Belt.

Unlike his teacher, Matthew, like all Ethical Culture and Ethical Humanist students, understands that it is not what you believe but how you behave that is most important. When founding this religion of ethics in 1876, Felix Adler noted that “There have been no direr wars than religious wars, no bitterer hates than religious hates. . . It has destroyed the peace of families, turned the father against the son, the brother against the brother.” Holding that freedom of thought is a sacred right of every individual and that diversity of thought is welcome, he offered a “practical religion” of ethical fellowship: “Diversity in the creed, unanimity in the deed!”

Our ethical communities celebrate the unique differences in humanity and work to create a better world for everyone, not just the chosen, believing, few. We are very proud of Matthew and all of our children who have been encouraged to speak up for themselves and for all thinking and caring people.

Dr. Anne Klaeysen

Doctor of Ministry

Leader of the Ethical Humanist Society of Long Island

38 Old Country Road

Garden City, NY 11530

516-741-7304

www.ehsli.org

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Ouch!  To be fair, only 30-50% of kearny fits this description.  The great majority keeps quite so as to not attrack the attention of the minority; lest they be put into a position of defending reason.

This is exactly right. It's the spoiled brat in the family everyone mollifies in order to have a little peace.

I say: no more. Whine, kick, scream, hold your breath until you turn blue; no more. It's time for adults to take charge.

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After reading the NYT article and then slogging through all 16 pages of this discussion, I'm pleased that the bulk of the postings have finally shifted in the LaClairs' favor.  It seemed that the Kearny locals who were defending the teacher were confused, to be charitable. 

They accused the student of treachery for taping the class, but dismissed his account of the meeting with the teacher and the principal because he had not taped it.

They claimed that the student was a trouble-maker for refusing to recite the pledge, but defended the teacher's "right" to discuss his religion in the classroom. 

Personally, I'm glad that our country has patriots like Matt LaClair to defend it from the attacks the religious right has made against free public education.  Hopefully, when the rest of us find ourselves in similar situations, we will stand and fight for America the way this boy has.

I also applaud Paul LaClair, for what seems to me to be excellent parenting skills.  I would guess that he has encouraged his son in his efforts to expose this fraud, but allowed him to handle it on his own until the school refused to correct the situation.  What a great civics lesson!  It seems to me that Matt is the only student in this U.S History class who is getting a hands-on introduction to its topic.

Thank you. You are very insightful, and almost dead-on the money about what happened in our household. Matthew called his own shots, often against my advice, which proved to be inferior to his own judgments. After he called the teacher to account in Mr. Somma's office and produced the recordings, I wrote a "hands-off" letter and took over.

As for Matthew being the only student in the class, or many classes, who got it --- the facts speak for themselves. I truly hope our town will learn from this and begin to take citizenship seriously by teaching it to the young. Of course, we adults will have to get it, too.

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Since this all became public, I am wondering if you have heard of other, similiar incedents that have occurred in other public schools? If yes, are they isolated, orare they a fairly frequent occurance?

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That seems to show restraint, but at what point did he begin making the recordings?

I'm just so struck at how unreasonable the people are who are who are sticking up for this teacher. They seem completely uninterested in having any kind of civil discussion at all, it's just accuasations and mean spirited attacks.

I'm really proud of the young man for showing what was going on! He gives me a lot of hope for the future, that there are rational, thinking young people who champion free thought, science, and freedom from fear and archaic superstition. He's really brave! I wish he was out here on the west coast, I'd introduce him to my 16 y/o daughter who is also a great world citizen!

You go dad -- you did a GREAT job, your son is a hero to a lot of people all over the country!

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Paul, don't let the people who are trying to paint you as money-hungry attention seekers get you down. You're doing the right thing; when I first read an article about this situation I was appalled at the backlash your family is receiving (death threats, people claiming that the first amendment supports the teacher, people calling for your son to be suspended, etc). After coming here its obvious that it is way worse.

Fight the good fight and don't give up, religious views and bullshit twisting of science to support an agenda is the greatest threat against education facing this country.

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I'm a Christian.

This teacher and anyone who agrees with him is a disgrace to the faith. Jesus would never have acted in such a hateful way and said that a girl would go to hell to her faith. Jesus was compassionate to everyone.

If you know anything, you would know that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham.

There is also no reason that God did not create evolution, just like he created everything else. Why couldn't God have been the source of the Big Bang? By denying evolution, you all make yourselves honestly look like idiots to scientists, and this is why we have so few scientists believing in God. Get some sense and realize that evolution and God can go hand in hand the same as God and creationism. Evolution is creationism, just at a slower pace.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that those who really follow Jesus' teachings who are Christians are ashamed of this teacher and his supporters' conduct. You make us all look bad and will be the downfall of Christianity.

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Guest Manhattanite

Thank you Paul and Matt for standing up for what is right. This country has been overrun by religious zealotry for far too long. It's unbelievable that in 2006 that we're still debating issues like this. Are we heading back to the days of the Scopes Monkey Trial?

And to all of Matt's detractors- What Mr. P. did was a direct violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Judging from some of the ridiculously juvenile personal attacks that I've seen on this discussion board that maybe too difficult for you to understand. So I'll make it a bit more simple- Mr. P. broke the law. And he should be made to answer for his actions.

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Guest Manhattanite

Thank you Gloria- that was a really brave thing to say.

I'm a Christian.

This teacher and anyone who agrees with him is a disgrace to the faith.  Jesus would never have acted in such a hateful way and said that a girl would go to hell to her faith.  Jesus was compassionate to everyone. 

If you know anything, you would know that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. 

There is also no reason that God did not create evolution, just like he created everything else.  Why couldn't God have been the source of the Big Bang?  By denying evolution, you all make yourselves honestly look like idiots to scientists, and this is why we have so few scientists believing in God.  Get some sense and realize that evolution and God can go hand in hand the same as God and creationism.  Evolution is creationism, just at a slower pace. 

Anyway, I just wanted to say that those who really follow Jesus' teachings who are Christians are ashamed of this teacher and his supporters' conduct.  You make us all look bad and will be the downfall of Christianity.

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Guest Sherman Dorn

From an outsider's perspective (I'm an historian of education), there's no doubt that the school district had an obligation to make sure that the teacher stopped proselytizing and also to make sure that there was no retaliation. It's the retaliation that's the serious issue for me, more than the presence or absence of an apology. (And in any case, I think it's the school district's obligation to acknowledge that a violation of policy and common sense occurred and to reassure the parents that it would not happen again.)

I'm curious, though: Mr. LeClair, did you send the school district a cease-and-desist letter about the retaliation, before filing a lawsuit?

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From an outsider's perspective (I'm an historian of education), there's no doubt that the school district had an obligation to make sure that the teacher stopped proselytizing and also to make sure that there was no retaliation. It's the retaliation that's the serious issue for me, more than the presence or absence of an apology. (And in any case, I think it's the school district's obligation to acknowledge that a violation of policy and common sense occurred and to reassure the parents that it would not happen again.)

I'm curious, though: Mr. LeClair, did you send the school district a cease-and-desist letter about the retaliation, before filing a lawsuit?

Sherman, we have not filed a lawsuit, even to this day. We sent four letters through the school district's entire chain of command, practically begging for a resolution. They did not even have the courtesy to respond, until I finally got their attorney on the phone one day; after trying to evade my question, he finally told me that what they do about what happens in my son's classroom was not my concern. As for the retaliation, they know perfectly well what is going on, and obviously choose to defend their teacher, but not their student.

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Paul, don't let the people who are trying to paint you as money-hungry attention seekers get you down. You're doing the right thing; when I first read an article about this situation I was appalled at the backlash your family is receiving (death threats, people claiming that the first amendment supports the teacher, people calling for your son to be suspended, etc). After coming here its obvious that it is way worse.

Fight the good fight and don't give up, religious views and bullshit twisting of science to support an agenda is the greatest threat against education facing this country.

I know, Alex, but thank you for saying it, and saying it here. I've learned much about small-minded people throughout this episode. People who wrap everything around their own opinions will sometimes do anything to maintain those opinions, even if it means making things up, slandering others or even harming others physically. It's the willingness of people like Matthew to stand up, and others to support him visibly, that will win the day.

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