Why our country is in trouble

[Guest Truth Teller]

Beginning in 1981, a new consensus emerged in American politics. It was the beginning of the Reagan era. People had grown suspicious of "tax and spend" Democrats and had just voted Reagan into the presidency. He promised to trim government and reduce the debt.

But Reagan did not want to tax anyone or cut military spending, and no one was willing to touch social security or Medicare. So instead of reducing the debt, Reagan tripled it in eight years. Bush I added another one-third, so that in twelve years of supposedly conservative rule, we quadrupled the debt. Clinton brought matters under control in his eight years but then, having liked Bush I so much, we voted in Bush II, who doubled the debt yet again. By the time he left office, with the economy near collapse, the national debt was ten times what it had been when Reagan took office. Nobody seemed to notice, or care, that these supposedly conservative Republicans presidents were doing the exact opposite of what they promised to do.

Well after all, times were good, right? Sure they were. We were borrowing money from our children to live high in our own time.

Meanwhile, we weren't investing in our future. Our infrastructure and manufacturing base declined during the Reagan era of consummate irresponsibility. We allowed the oil companies to make record profits instead of investing in new technologies for the future. We let the health insurance companies control the health care field as the rest of the developed world kept its costs low with intelligent national plans for health care delivery. We allowed people to borrow far beyond their means to repay, so that individuals also piled up unmanageable debts. It's our fault but we followed a "leader" and his name was Reagan. He didn't call for irresponsible credit but he did set a tone of irresponsibility and denial (of reality), which has persisted to this day.

We still refuse to face the fact that these problems are of our own making - we the people did this, not just the politicians. Of course, no politician will dare to say that, so we never have a real conversation about who is really responsible. We are.

Democrats are about to lose seats in and maybe control of Congress, which would make sense if it didn't mean that the people were going to vote in the same Republicans who caused the problem. We have been selfish and short-sighted, and now we have to pay the price. But instead of blaming ourselves, we are blaming our politicians. Not that they're blameless but they're only doing what we insisted they do.

We wanted a free ride on borrowed money. Now, one way or another, we have to pay the price.

It's our own fault. Anyone who didn't try to put a stop to this should look in the mirror first.

[Guest 2smart4u]

Beginning in 1981, a new consensus emerged in American politics. It was the beginning of the Reagan era. People had grown suspicious of "tax and spend" Democrats and had just voted Reagan into the presidency. He promised to trim government and reduce the debt.

But Reagan did not want to tax anyone or cut military spending, and no one was willing to touch social security or Medicare. So instead of reducing the debt, Reagan tripled it in eight years. Bush I added another one-third, so that in twelve years of supposedly conservative rule, we quadrupled the debt. Clinton brought matters under control in his eight years but then, having liked Bush I so much, we voted in Bush II, who doubled the debt yet again. By the time he left office, with the economy near collapse, the national debt was ten times what it had been when Reagan took office. Nobody seemed to notice, or care, that these supposedly conservative Republicans presidents were doing the exact opposite of what they promised to do.

Well after all, times were good, right? Sure they were. We were borrowing money from our children to live high in our own time.

Meanwhile, we weren't investing in our future. Our infrastructure and manufacturing base declined during the Reagan era of consummate irresponsibility. We allowed the oil companies to make record profits instead of investing in new technologies for the future. We let the health insurance companies control the health care field as the rest of the developed world kept its costs low with intelligent national plans for health care delivery. We allowed people to borrow far beyond their means to repay, so that individuals also piled up unmanageable debts. It's our fault but we followed a "leader" and his name was Reagan. He didn't call for irresponsible credit but he did set a tone of irresponsibility and denial (of reality), which has persisted to this day.

We still refuse to face the fact that these problems are of our own making - we the people did this, not just the politicians. Of course, no politician will dare to say that, so we never have a real conversation about who is really responsible. We are.

Democrats are about to lose seats in and maybe control of Congress, which would make sense if it didn't mean that the people were going to vote in the same Republicans who caused the problem. We have been selfish and short-sighted, and now we have to pay the price. But instead of blaming ourselves, we are blaming our politicians. Not that they're blameless but they're only doing what we insisted they do.

We wanted a free ride on borrowed money. Now, one way or another, we have to pay the price.

It's our own fault. Anyone who didn't try to put a stop to this should look in the mirror first.

You failed to note that zerO added more debt in his 20 months than Bush did in 8 years. However the american public has noted it and that's why the Tea Party has become such a force. In 17 days there will be a price to pay for the spending frenzy of zerO and his far left cronies in congress.

[Guest Guest]

You failed to note that zerO added more debt in his 20 months than Bush did in 8 years. However the american public has noted it and that's why the Tea Party has become such a force. In 17 days there will be a price to pay for the spending frenzy of zerO and his far left cronies in congress.

You are a lying scumbag. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Furthermore, Obama added necessary debt to keep the economy from collapsing after Bush caused the disaster. Bush added unnecessary debt to lie us into a war of choice (not of necessity) and give his super-rich cronies a tax break they didn't need and didn't deserve.

Don't blame Obama for having to dig us out of a hole dug by Bush.

[Guest Truth Teller]

You failed to note that zerO added more debt in his 20 months than Bush did in 8 years. However the american public has noted it and that's why the Tea Party has become such a force. In 17 days there will be a price to pay for the spending frenzy of zerO and his far left cronies in congress.

If you mean President Obama, his challenges reflect a well-known principle. If you ignore a problem to the point that it becomes a major problem, then you have to spend more time and money fixing it than if you had addressed it when it was a minor problem. For example, if you let your tooth rot, you may have to have it removed instead of just having it filled; if you run your car on low oil, you may ruin the engine. "A stitch in time saves nine." We didn't put in the stitch. We ignored our problems for decades and so we had to spend a lot of money in the short term just propping the economy up so it didn't collapse. Like KO, I have misgivings about Obama, but he is hardly a failure. The very fact that the economy hasn't collapsed means that he succeeded, because collapse was a very real threat two years ago. Everyone knows you're not credible, with your constant attacks on him. You won't even call him by his name.

But that's not the main point. The main point is that we propped the economy up for decades with borrowed money without investing in the future. It was myopic and selfish, and it is a main reason we are in trouble today.

My purpose in opening these discussions is to see whether anyone on the right has any answer at all to these points. So far, the answer is no.

[Guest 2smart4u]

You are a lying scumbag. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Furthermore, Obama added necessary debt to keep the economy from collapsing after Bush caused the disaster. Bush added unnecessary debt to lie us into a war of choice (not of necessity) and give his super-rich cronies a tax break they didn't need and didn't deserve.

Don't blame Obama for having to dig us out of a hole dug by Bush.

70% of americans say you're full of shit, in 2 weeks zerO gets his chinese credit cards cut up.

[Guest Guest]

70% of americans say you're full of shit, in 2 weeks zerO gets his chinese credit cards cut up.

I don't care if 100% of people say it. It's not true. People do stupid things all the time. If the people vote the Republicans back into office because they're reacting instead of thinking, it will still be stupid.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I don't care if 100% of people say it. It's not true. People do stupid things all the time. If the people vote the Republicans back into office because they're reacting instead of thinking, it will still be stupid.

Right. Everyone's out of step but you.

[Guest Guest]

Right. Everyone's out of step but you.

No, stupid, that's not the point. You made a claim and it isn't true. The facts prove that it isn't true. http://www.treasuryd...debt_histo5.htm

It doesn't matter how many people think it's true. It's not true.

Anyway, all you did was toss out another asinine claim as though it was a fact. What 70%? What poll are you talking about?

You won't answer because there is no such poll. The facts don't matter to you. They don't matter to the nutcakes on the radical right wing in this country. That's why this election is such a disaster in the making if your nutcakes win.

Do they have a plan? No.

Do they have any answer at all for the global economy? No.

Are they even aware that they're helping the giant corporations take over our country and destroy the last vestiges of democracy we have left? No.

All you know is hatefulness and contempt for everything you don't understand.

Which means that you hate most everything.

[Guest Guest]

No, stupid, that's not the point. You made a claim and it isn't true. The facts prove that it isn't true. http://www.treasuryd...debt_histo5.htm

It doesn't matter how many people think it's true. It's not true.

Anyway, all you did was toss out another asinine claim as though it was a fact. What 70%? What poll are you talking about?

You won't answer because there is no such poll. The facts don't matter to you. They don't matter to the nutcakes on the radical right wing in this country. That's why this election is such a disaster in the making if your nutcakes win.

Do they have a plan? No.

Do they have any answer at all for the global economy? No.

Are they even aware that they're helping the giant corporations take over our country and destroy the last vestiges of democracy we have left? No.

All you know is hatefulness and contempt for everything you don't understand.

Which means that you hate most everything.

What an ideologue. You say he hates everything, do you actually read what you write?

Heres your link.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/october_2010/70_say_government_does_not_spend_taxpayer_money_wisely

Turn off th tv and do some research.

[Guest Truth Teller]

What an ideologue. You say he hates everything, do you actually read what you write?

Heres your link.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/october_2010/70_say_government_does_not_spend_taxpayer_money_wisely

Turn off th tv and do some research.

You don't understand what you read. The poll found that 70% of Americans think government spends money unwisely. That includes many liberals who support Obama. In fact, it includes me. The government wastes vast sums of money on unnecessary weapons and an unnecessary war. Indirectly, it wastes money paying off a huge national debt, which we incurred because we failed to invest in new energy sources and gave an undeserved tax break to the rich ten years ago. We have to service the debt now that it exists but it should never have been run up in the first place. If Bush hadn't incurred unnecessary debt of ten trillion dollars, Obama could have incurred more debt than he did, and still the national debt would have been lower than the day he took office.

I understand why people get angry. You right wingers don't think. In a democracy, that affects everyone.

70% of the people are not going to vote Republican in the upcoming election. If you don't believe me, wait thirteen days and you'll see that I was right.