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The critical importance of teaching evolution

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Do you know that this club has the most members? Obviously this is something the students want.

So let's just have them read comic books instead of textbooks. Oh, and while we're at it, let's put a keg of beer in every classroom. They'd love it.

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Guest Guest
Do you know that this club has the most members? Obviously this is something the students want.

So let's just have them read comic books instead of textbooks. If you believe Paszkiewicz, it's the same thing. Oh, and while we're at it, let's put a keg of beer in every classroom. They'd love it.

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Guest Guest
Matthew will be hosting this week's segment of Equal Time for Freethought, to be broadcast this coming Sunday, June 7, at 6:30 p.m. on WBAI radio, 99.5 FM. His current intention is to discuss this issue, on which there has been much activity this week, and to open the phone lines for calls.

This will be the third program he has hosted for ETF. The others (shows 297 and 301) can be heard at www.equaltimeforfreethought.org , where the upcoming program will also be posted shortly after it is aired. Just click on the "Recent Episodes" box on the right or search the episode number.

How about a big yawn because "nobody cares!" . Good riddens to ol' rubbish.

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Guest Paul
How is this club a harmful activity? Do you know that this club has the most members? Obviously this is something the students want. I suggest you read up again sir on the EAA. You may learn a thing or two.

Like most people in Kearny, I am paying good money to make sure that the children and teenagers in our community receive a good education. Education is one of the most important and most serious things any community or any country ever does. The quality of our education will determine our country’s economic future, and the quality of our science education in particular is a matter of national security. For a community, the education of its citizens bears a direct relation to their economic well-being.

Young-earth creationism is indefensible. Though some people insist on believing it, it’s not true. If Mr. Paszkiewicz insists on ignoring science so he can maintain his belief system, that’s his right. When he starts taking advantage of his position as a teacher in our school system to undermine education and promote ignorance, on my dime, it’s my business.

A school district should have the power to stand up for its curriculum. I believe the existing law allows it to do so, but if the current law does not allow it, then the law should be changed.

The central mission of the schools is to teach. The expenditure of one dime of taxpayer funds in the promotion of ignorance is offensive. I hope the community will rise up and put a stop to this man's continued antics in his role as our employee. We are doing all we can. We invite others to join us.

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Guest K. Parent
Like most people in Kearny, I am paying good money to make sure that the children and teenagers in our community receive a good education. Education is one of the most important and most serious things any community or any country ever does. The quality of our education will determine our country’s economic future, and the quality of our science education in particular is a matter of national security. For a community, the education of its citizens bears a direct relation to their economic well-being.

Young-earth creationism is indefensible. Though some people insist on believing it, it’s not true. If Mr. Paszkiewicz insists on ignoring science so he can maintain his belief system, that’s his right. When he starts taking advantage of his position as a teacher in our school system to undermine education and promote ignorance, on my dime, it’s my business.

A school district should have the power to stand up for its curriculum. I believe the existing law allows it to do so, but if the current law does not allow it, then the law should be changed.

The central mission of the schools is to teach. The expenditure of one dime of taxpayer funds in the promotion of ignorance is offensive. I hope the community will rise up and put a stop to this man's continued antics in his role as our employee. We are doing all we can. We invite others to join us.

How educational is a trip to Great Adventure? How about to Newark Bear Stadium?

Children will miss INSTRUCTIONAL time for that and Paul your tax dollar actually pays for that trip.

The Creation Museum the children raised the money and paid for their own expense for that trip.

That's their business and not YOURS.

Do you hold the other clubs at the KHS at the same standards or just this one?

I see DISCRIMATION & HARASSAMENT. I am sure you are familiar with these words.

GET OFF your little soap box and get a life.

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Guest Paul
How educational is a trip to Great Adventure? How about to Newark Bear Stadium?

Children will miss INSTRUCTIONAL time for that and Paul your tax dollar actually pays for that trip.

The Creation Museum the children raised the money and paid for their own expense for that trip.

That's their business and not YOURS.

Do you hold the other clubs at the KHS at the same standards or just this one?

I see DISCRIMATION & HARASSAMENT. I am sure you are familiar with these words.

GET OFF your little soap box and get a life.

I have a life, thank you, part of which is advocacy for important issues I believe in. I will stay on this issue because it is such an issue. Students should not take time off school for a trip to Great Adventure or Bear Stadium because neither of those has an educational purpose - unless they're studying the architecture of the stadium. However, both of those are harmless entertainment, as contrasted with the Creation Museum trip, the purpose of which to promote ignorance. That is an essential difference, and therefore your point is not well taken. I hold all clubs to exactly the same standard.

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You were told what the problem was and you don't want to hear it. This afternoon, Kearny taxpayers are going to subsidize a 1,500 bus trip for approximately twenty Kearny High students who want to pretend that fairy tales are history, egged on by a numbskull history teacher who should have been fired two years ago. I'm not talking about God creating the earth. Responsible people believe that. I'm talking about what's being promoted at the Creation Museum, which is completely disproved by science. Dinosaurs and humans did not live at the same time. There's even an exhibit of a dinosaur with a saddle and the little kids can ride it. News flash: dinosaurs wouldn't be domestic animals even if they had lived at the same time as people. You try riding a crocodile. It's like Paszkiewicz is going out of his way to promote the stupidest thing he can think of --- except he really believes it!

As for the club's popularity, the German people elected Hitler and the American people stood behind slavery. Plenty of kids like to get drunk and act stupid. So what? Just because a lot of people want to be ignorant doesn't mean the taxpayers should pay for it.

The Kearny Board of Education did not pay for this trip. The students raised and paid for everything themselves. The trip was not during the school day so there wasn't a need for a substitute teacher. The club, by law, is allowed in the school. Give it up. There is so much more that you challenge, but you don't. Why? Sit in on a board meeting once in a while a listen to how your money is being spent, you'll give up on this club and go after the bigger fish.

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Guest Paul
The Kearny Board of Education did not pay for this trip. The students raised and paid for everything themselves. The trip was not during the school day so there wasn't a need for a substitute teacher. The club, by law, is allowed in the school. Give it up. There is so much more that you challenge, but you don't. Why? Sit in on a board meeting once in a while a listen to how your money is being spent, you'll give up on this club and go after the bigger fish.

I'll answer your question by telling you what I've been telling you for two and a half years. There is an attempt by millions of evangelical Christians in the United States (by no means all evangelical Christians) to turn the United States into a theocracy. They came very close to succeeding under Bush, are close to having a majority of Justices on the Supreme Court, and most people are blind to the issue. Mr. Paszkiewicz is a tireless advocate for that view.

One of the tragic offshoots of this brand of evangelical extremism is the denial of science. This is nothing new in history, only now instead of denying that the Earth revolves around the Sun, some people are denying evolution and modern cosmology.

In the case at hand, a publicly owned bus is being used to take a 1,500 mile round trip to Kentucky. That involves a significant taxpayer expense that neither the club nor the students is reimbursing to my knowledge, just for wear and tear on the bus alone.

The only reason that the trip did not take place during the school day is that Matthew and I voiced our concerns. It was originally to have begun at 8:00 a.m., requiring the district to hire and pay for a substitute teacher. We are the ones who stopped that. What aggravates us about this, as much as anything else, is that either no one in the school's administration cared about the rather obvious problem or was willing to enforce the rule. We commend Supt. Cusack for acting on this when the matter came to her attention. We are very disappointed to learn that the Board of Education did not act promptly enough to keep her on. I understand she is leaving us soon, and do not understand the Board's inaction or reluctance.

The other thing we put a stop to, temporarily and in a very limited way, was Mr. Paszkiewicz's overreaching. In his own handwriting, he was justifying this trip as a science trip (thus the request for Friday off). This is the same teacher who got himself into trouble over this issue before, and now he gets his wish to take these kids to a "museum" that promotes young-earth creationism. He was also listing himself on the official KHS website as the club's "teacher," and the club was posted on the KHS official site as part of the history department. Both of those overreaches have also been corrected. It is clear to us that Mr. Paszkiewicz will never accept the limitations on his role vis-a-vis this club. He appears to see it as his, which is contrary to the law - not surprising since he does not agree with the law and has made no secret of his willingness to violate it. I understand that people don't want to be bothered with this, but if you live in Kearny, this man is a threat to your wallet every day he represents the school district. He is disaster waiting to happen (again), and if it does, we will have no defense because we are on notice. Put simply, we cannot trust him to abide by the law regarding these issues.

We do not question the club's right to exist. It has existed for approximately a year and a half with no complaint from us. In fact, I believe I have stated that before, publicly, and wished the club well. It is unfortunate that some people seem to feel a need to accuse us of things we are not doing. The most likely explanation is that they do not wish to see the issue for what it is. If this was a popular position to take, Matthew and I wouldn't be so alone in taking it.

I continue to invite the people of Kearny to address this issue. If you're not concerned about science education or church-state separation, then do it to protect your wallets. We have no defense if Mr. Paszkiewicz puts us in a position of having to defend what could be a very expensive lawsuit. The district spent over $120,000 on legal fees over our issue with Mr. Paszkiewicz before, even though we spent the whole time trying to work it out with them and avoid any expense. If the next person to complain is looking for a payday, he or she just might get it. It could cost us millions.

Speak up and put your name to it. Citizen protest makes a difference.

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We’re still dealing with this in Kearny. The latest edition of the KHS student newspaper announces that the Alpha and Omega club is contemplating a trip to the so-called Creation Museum. It is no coincidence that the club’s “adviser” is Mr. Paszkiewicz. I hope they aren’t planning on spending a single dime of taxpayer money on this.

Have you reason to think taxpayer money was used for the trip?

In any case, I do not believe that young-earth creationism represents the views of the majority of Kearny’s Christians. So why are you silent? This is a threat to the education of your children.

Is it? Why? I'm not a young-earth creationist but I don't regard it as a threat to education.

If we want our kids to understand science, this is an intolerable situation.

So anyone (or at least LaClair's kids?) who goes to the museum will automatically fail to understand science? That must be quite a museum.

There is very little doubt that a certain teacher is still pushing his views. Having escaped termination or any meaningful sanction, he is now emboldened to push the envelope further.

Hmm. I seem to remember Mr. LaClair proclaiming that he got what he wanted with his earlier lawsuit. Now, however, the supposed failure to get a teacher fired or to secure any meaningful sanction (was meaninful sanction not one of the original goals of the suit?), we find somebody pushing the envelope.

Plainly put, his views on this subject are ignorant. I know that from what I heard when he was recorded expounding on this subject.

I seem to recall that Mr. LaClair expressed ignorant views regarding science.

Evolution is an established scientific fact, based on more than a century of scientific research and data collection. Calling it a pre-conceived idea is dishonest.

Historically speaking, evolution as an idea preceded the theory of evolution. We may infer that calling calling it a preconceived idea is dishonest.

Equally to the point, it is a part of the mandatory curriculum. It is not up to Mr. Paszkiewicz, or any other teacher, to ignore the law. Yet the law is regularly being ignored because we allow a few radicals to protest the teaching of established science. If we care about our children’s education, we cannot allow this to continue.

What do you propose to do about it, short of lobbying to remove the constitutional protections of peaceful protest?

Because the Alpha and Omega club is within the law’s guidelines by outward appearances, its operations are legal.

Rankles you, does it?

However, I wonder what really goes on in those meetings. I hope that I am not the only Kearny citizen who is concerned about this. There can be no doubt that a school-sanctioned club is being used to promote scientific ignorance. This affects the education of all our students and adversely affects our town.

How does it supposedly affect the education of "all our students"?

Perhaps the wishes of the parents whose students attend the club should be paramount rather than the wishes of a person who despises the club?

Meanwhile, here are some videos that make more sense and offer a little more hope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_AcaF8JgGc&NR=1

With all due respect to Penn and Teller's abilities as entertainers, it is not accurate to portray "intelligent design" as stemming from fables. Intelligent design is a logical inference with which one might agree or disagree. One of the ill results of the Dover case, apparently, is the manner in which it facilitated the equivocation between Young Earth Creationism and Intelligent Design. The latter is compatible with common descent. If LaClair is aware of that then he has little excuse for providing such a misleading link. I certainly hope that he is not planning on using taxpayer money for this ... after all, arguing straw men affects all our children's education. :)

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Guest Lincoln Logger
I'll answer your question by telling you what I've been telling you for two and a half years. There is an attempt by millions of evangelical Christians in the United States (by no means all evangelical Christians) to turn the United States into a theocracy. They came very close to succeeding under Bush, are close to having a majority of Justices on the Supreme Court, and most people are blind to the issue. Mr. Paszkiewicz is a tireless advocate for that view.

One of the tragic offshoots of this brand of evangelical extremism is the denial of science. This is nothing new in history, only now instead of denying that the Earth revolves around the Sun, some people are denying evolution and modern cosmology.

In the case at hand, a publicly owned bus is being used to take a 1,500 mile round trip to Kentucky. That involves a significant taxpayer expense that neither the club nor the students is reimbursing to my knowledge, just for wear and tear on the bus alone.

The only reason that the trip did not take place during the school day is that Matthew and I voiced our concerns. It was originally to have begun at 8:00 a.m., requiring the district to hire and pay for a substitute teacher. We are the ones who stopped that. What aggravates us about this, as much as anything else, is that either no one in the school's administration cared about the rather obvious problem or was willing to enforce the rule. We commend Supt. Cusack for acting on this when the matter came to her attention. We are very disappointed to learn that the Board of Education did not act promptly enough to keep her on. I understand she is leaving us soon, and do not understand the Board's inaction or reluctance.

The other thing we put a stop to, temporarily and in a very limited way, was Mr. Paszkiewicz's overreaching. In his own handwriting, he was justifying this trip as a science trip (thus the request for Friday off). This is the same teacher who got himself into trouble over this issue before, and now he gets his wish to take these kids to a "museum" that promotes young-earth creationism. He was also listing himself on the official KHS website as the club's "teacher," and the club was posted on the KHS official site as part of the history department. Both of those overreaches have also been corrected. It is clear to us that Mr. Paszkiewicz will never accept the limitations on his role vis-a-vis this club. He appears to see it as his, which is contrary to the law - not surprising since he does not agree with the law and has made no secret of his willingness to violate it. I understand that people don't want to be bothered with this, but if you live in Kearny, this man is a threat to your wallet every day he represents the school district. He is disaster waiting to happen (again), and if it does, we will have no defense because we are on notice. Put simply, we cannot trust him to abide by the law regarding these issues.

We do not question the club's right to exist. It has existed for approximately a year and a half with no complaint from us. In fact, I believe I have stated that before, publicly, and wished the club well. It is unfortunate that some people seem to feel a need to accuse us of things we are not doing. The most likely explanation is that they do not wish to see the issue for what it is. If this was a popular position to take, Matthew and I wouldn't be so alone in taking it.

I continue to invite the people of Kearny to address this issue. If you're not concerned about science education or church-state separation, then do it to protect your wallets. We have no defense if Mr. Paszkiewicz puts us in a position of having to defend what could be a very expensive lawsuit. The district spent over $120,000 on legal fees over our issue with Mr. Paszkiewicz before, even though we spent the whole time trying to work it out with them and avoid any expense. If the next person to complain is looking for a payday, he or she just might get it. It could cost us millions.

Speak up and put your name to it. Citizen protest makes a difference.

I for one am all in favor of this club. With my son still at Kearny High School I see it as an excellent chance for him to get another perspective of history. Your biggest complaint is that how this teacher has cost out Kearny taxpayers money but yet it is you with this stupid vendetta against this teacher that has cost Kearny in your own words $120,000. That does not make sense. I also do not hear your spoiled son Matthew voicing his concerns but you speaking for him. This club is an excellent outlet for these students who take learning seriously. You would much rather stifle their ability to think in saying that things like this do not exist. Sort of makes the people on this town wonder after a year and a half of this clubs existence why now you would bring it up only days after announcing of your sons speaking engagement. Think this is a coincidence? Who do you think you are fooling?

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Guest K. Parent
I continue to invite the people of Kearny to address this issue. If you're not concerned about science education or church-state separation, then do it to protect your wallets. We have no defense if Mr. Paszkiewicz puts us in a position of having to defend what could be a very expensive lawsuit. The district spent over $120,000 on legal fees over our issue with Mr. Paszkiewicz before, even though we spent the whole time trying to work it out with them and avoid any expense. If the next person to complain is looking for a payday, he or she just might get it. It could cost us millions.

Speak up and put your name to it. Citizen protest makes a difference.

Paul stop riding behind the "you are so concern about kids education" and the "protect the wallets of the people of this town" nonsense.

You could care less for the people of this town. If you were so concern about Kearny residents wallets you wouldn't have cost them $120,000 over YOUR issue. This is all about your AGENDA.

You want to have your name attached to anything, go volunteer somewhere, do some good for a change. Keep yourself busy that way. It might make you feel a little better and less bitter.

By the way...

The trip was a success and the students loved it.

They can't wait to go back.

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Guest Guest
I for one am all in favor of this club. With my son still at Kearny High School I see it as an excellent chance for him to get another perspective of history. Your biggest complaint is that how this teacher has cost out Kearny taxpayers money but yet it is you with this stupid vendetta against this teacher that has cost Kearny in your own words $120,000. That does not make sense. I also do not hear your spoiled son Matthew voicing his concerns but you speaking for him. This club is an excellent outlet for these students who take learning seriously. You would much rather stifle their ability to think in saying that things like this do not exist. Sort of makes the people on this town wonder after a year and a half of this clubs existence why now you would bring it up only days after announcing of your sons speaking engagement. Think this is a coincidence? Who do you think you are fooling?

The slogan of the Creation Museum is "prepare to believe." Paszkiewicz's is to justify his extremist biblical beliefs by any means necessary. Neither of them has nothing to do with thinking or learning, in fact they are just the opposite. The method of "thinking" promoted by these extremist evangelicals is first you believe it, then you do anything to justify it. "Take learning seriously," my pterodactyl.

Of course, in your twisted vision, it's the fault of the kid who reported the person breaking the law, and had the proof to back it up, not the fault of the person who broke it or the school board that tried to sweep it under the rug. If you had listened to Matthew on the radio last evening, you would have heard him speaking very well for himself. It turns out that the district's attorney finally learned something, and probably prevented this story from making more news. He and the new superintendent pulled the plug on this trip taking place during school hours.

Your post fully explains why Kearny has this problem, and why this town is a joke to the rest of the world. Ever wonder why property values aren't higher, with Kearny only ten miles from the City? This is why. Apples don't fall far from the trees.

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Guest Guest
Paul stop riding behind the "you are so concern about kids education" and the "protect the wallets of the people of this town" nonsense.

You could care less for the people of this town. If you were so concern about Kearny residents wallets you wouldn't have cost them $120,000 over YOUR issue. This is all about your AGENDA.

You want to have your name attached to anything, go volunteer somewhere, do some good for a change. Keep yourself busy that way. It might make you feel a little better and less bitter.

By the way...

The trip was a success and the students loved it.

They can't wait to go back.

Of course they can't. Everyone likes fairy tales.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drjonboyg/526893292/

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/06...tion-museum.ars

:)

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Here is the fundamental problem with Paul's position:

Obviously (I hope), the school would not sanction or condone a club supporting the goals of NAMBLA, since that organization promotes illegal activity. I’m quite certain that a club dedicated to the reading of erotic popular magazines like Playboy would meet with disapproval, too – but on what grounds? The activity is legal. What if the seniors formed a club whose mission was to take every student to a strip club on his or her eighteenth birthday, when it’s legal?

I understand that a former principal put the lid on an attempt by some students to form a gay-straight alliance club. He had no business doing that. The club is completely legal, and it furthers an important educational mission of promoting tolerance.

Gay-straight alliance club? That's great, because it promotes tolerance.

Now the erotic readings club ... Paul offers that as an example of, what? Something that should be opposed? Or should it be supported on the same grounds as the gay-straight alliance clubs?

According to Paul, it is an educational duty (to at least some degree) to promote tolerance. And Paul seems to draw the line somewhere in the law. But where? What should be legal and what should not be legal?

Paul faces a dilemma, and he seems enduringly unaware of his problem. Do we follow the law for it's own sake? Or is there something undergirding the law that would make it right?

In the end, Paul is all about political power. He wants to use political power to pursue his own religious agenda. And I expect that the apple fell fairly close to that tree. Paul's aim is to bring the law closer to his own set of values. If you're doing the same thing based on your own set of values and those values differ from Paul's, then you are the enemy. His talk of tolerance will evaporate at that point.

Take him to task on NAMBLA. Should there be a NAMBLA club at public schools to promote tolerance if the activities it promoted were legal? And, when it comes to that, should those activities be legalized to pave the way for the club?

Dig all you like, Paul LaClair has no principled foundation behind his push for political power. He believes in a fantasy of "universal" human ethics where the facts overtly contradict his position (human ethics are not universal). In a nation founded on property rights, human liberty and religious freedom, Paul is pushing to make some exercise of religion illegal, and his principle seems amount to the tyranny of the majority.

He offers you choice between a terrifying theocracy and a type of religious secularism, but the reality is that we have lived with the type of "theocracy" Paul rails about since before the birth of the nation. The nation was founded on a common set of religious principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence. You don't get rights from science, and there are differing (ultimately religious/philosophical) views on rights. For most of our history, people did not concern themselves over every little offense to religious conscience. But with time and plenty of help from lawyers, we are near the point to reducing our Constitution to the absurd, for it is based on the aforementioned religious principles and often promotes beliefs contrary to the beliefs of at least some. And the majority can generally makes its preferences legal.

Before taking Paul's recommendations too seriously, think about where his road leads. And try to ferret out some of the inevitable unintended consequences.

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The slogan of the Creation Museum is "prepare to believe." Paszkiewicz's is to justify his extremist biblical beliefs by any means necessary. Neither of them has nothing to do with thinking or learning, in fact they are just the opposite. The method of "thinking" promoted by these extremist evangelicals is first you believe it, then you do anything to justify it. "Take learning seriously," my pterodactyl.

Of course, in your twisted vision, it's the fault of the kid who reported the person breaking the law, and had the proof to back it up, not the fault of the person who broke it or the school board that tried to sweep it under the rug. If you had listened to Matthew on the radio last evening, you would have heard him speaking very well for himself. It turns out that the district's attorney finally learned something, and probably prevented this story from making more news. He and the new superintendent pulled the plug on this trip taking place during school hours.

Your post fully explains why Kearny has this problem, and why this town is a joke to the rest of the world. Ever wonder why property values aren't higher, with Kearny only ten miles from the City? This is why. Apples don't fall far from the trees.

I also have a child in the Kearny School System. I have heard about this club and think it’s a good idea for the students who are interested. In my opinion, like having a club for fiction books, or a club for people from mars, I do not see the harm. Next Mr. LaClair will be telling us what we can and cannot read as well as where we can and cannot go. The last I looked this was the United States of America. It seems his agenda is tainted.

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Guest Guest

There’s no need to waste your money. Take a little trip through the “Creation Museum.” This way you don’t have to leave your brains at the door.

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2310.html

The tour comes complete with disrespect for education, your school system and every teacher your kid ever had. Everybody knows those teachers we have in school are dumb.

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2338.html

Here’s a perfectly logical explanation for suffering. (Not!) http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2319.html

Of course, everybody agrees what God’s word is – right?

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2331.html

Can’t be more explicit than this. Forget reason and forget science. They’ve got all the answers in your right-thinking churches. (Those other churches can go to . . .)

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2334.html

And the science in this “museum” is where, exactly?

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2337.html

Yeah, to hell with the modern world. So we’re going back to live in caves, right? http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2343.html

This museum is about what, exactly?

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2370.html

And there were how many species of dinosaurs? http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2393.html

And mammals . . . and birds . . . and insects . . . and reptiles . . .

http://ncseweb.org/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/58.html

http://www.explorebiodiversity.com/Mexico/...ats/species.htm

http://faculty.plattsburgh.edu/thomas.wolosz/howmanysp.htm

http://animals.about.com/b/2007/08/13/how-...es-on-earth.htm

http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/engl...ecies/index.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...cgi?artid=54797

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...ec=worldupdates

And eight people supposedly collected them all in how long?

That boat was how big again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark

Climate changes? In the past 4,350 years? Like what climate changes?

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2401.html

Ah-hah!

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2403.html

Fossil layers formed by one big flood – all at once – care to explain that?

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2411.html

Yup! A real educational experience.

http://web.mit.edu/gjordan/www/creation/slides/_DSC2415.html

It numbs the mind to think that anyone takes this nonsense seriously.

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Guest Paul
I also have a child in the Kearny School System. I have heard about this club and think it’s a good idea for the students who are interested. In my opinion, like having a club for fiction books, or a club for people from mars, I do not see the harm. Next Mr. LaClair will be telling us what we can and cannot read as well as where we can and cannot go. The last I looked this was the United States of America. It seems his agenda is tainted.

You misunderstood me. As I already wrote, they have every right to have the club.

My point is that it is offensive when that club is used to undermine the very educational system that makes the club possible. On the trip that just took place, this club was used to promote ignorance, and they put 1,500 miles on one of our buses to do it. They were going to take the day off and force us to pay two substitute teachers until we put a stop to that. It is offensive and it is wrong.

In sum: the students should be able to have any club they like so long as it isn't illegal. (You do realize that means that a Nazi youth club would be legal, right?) By law, it must be entirely student driven and student led. I do not believe the taxpayers should be forced to have their tax dollars used in the promotion of ignorance.

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In sum: the students should be able to have any club they like so long as it isn't illegal. (You do realize that means that a Nazi youth club would be legal, right?) By law, it must be entirely student driven and student led. I do not believe the taxpayers should be forced to have their tax dollars used in the promotion of ignorance.

In regard to Paul's implied assertion that the future might bring about the acceptance of hypothetical clubs at KHS like NAMBLA, Nazi or Playboy Reading Clubs, he does not seem to factor in the process for forming student clubs at KHS. Recently I learned:

1. A club must be student initiated.

2. The student(s) must solicit a faculty adviser.

3. A charter (outlining the purpose of the club) must be brought before the VP of Student Activities.

4. A petition for the club must be signed by, I believe, 20 or more students who desire the club.

5 Those students must then come before the student council to have their club charter voted on for approval by the Student Government Association.

In short, it is highly unlikely that a Nambla, Nazi or Playboy Reading club would be approved at KHS for at least the following reasons:

1. No faculty member would chose to advise it.

2. There would not be enough student signatures on the petition. (thank God the students have more sense than Paul)

3. It certainly would not be approved by the Student Government Association.

Of course Paul doesn't care what the students or their parents want (According to the Kearny Journal last year the Alpha and Omega Club had 50 signatures and when voted on by the SGA, 72 voted in favor with only 3 abstaining. The 3 didn't even vote no, they abstained! It doesn't seem to matter to Paul at all what the students or their parents want. Paul thinks he's the only taxpayer in Kearny. In addition, he is not content to attack the existence of the club, he finds it necessary also to attack the deeply held beliefs of its members and their parents.

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I'll answer your question by telling you what I've been telling you for two and a half years. There is an attempt by millions of evangelical Christians in the United States (by no means all evangelical Christians) to turn the United States into a theocracy. They came very close to succeeding under Bush, are close to having a majority of Justices on the Supreme Court, and most people are blind to the issue.

Have a look at the religious makeup of the SCOTUS and get an inkling of the type of crackpottery you regularly receive courtesy of Paul LaClair:

http://www.adherents.com/adh_sc.html

The Protestants are losing Souter. Care to guess the religion of Judge Sotomayor? Another Roman Catholic. Somehow, there's a secret sect of Roman Catholics in league with the evangelicals in trying to take over the government. Fortunately, other Roman Catholics stand in their way.

Ludicrous.

One of the tragic offshoots of this brand of evangelical extremism is the denial of science. This is nothing new in history, only now instead of denying that the Earth revolves around the Sun, some people are denying evolution and modern cosmology.

Interesting parallel, since Galileo was a committed Roman Catholic opposed by another set of Roman Catholics (as well as the mainstream science of the day). The Evangelicals didn't even figure in the debate in those days, of course. One might think differently to hear Mr. LaClair rant, however.

In the case at hand, a publicly owned bus is being used to take a 1,500 mile round trip to Kentucky. That involves a significant taxpayer expense that neither the club nor the students is reimbursing to my knowledge, just for wear and tear on the bus alone.

To your knowledge, eh? Is that supposed to count for something?

The only reason that the trip did not take place during the school day is that Matthew and I voiced our concerns. It was originally to have begun at 8:00 a.m., requiring the district to hire and pay for a substitute teacher. We are the ones who stopped that. What aggravates us about this, as much as anything else, is that either no one in the school's administration cared about the rather obvious problem or was willing to enforce the rule.

What rule, please?

The other thing we put a stop to, temporarily and in a very limited way, was Mr. Paszkiewicz's overreaching. In his own handwriting, he was justifying this trip as a science trip (thus the request for Friday off). This is the same teacher who got himself into trouble over this issue before, and now he gets his wish to take these kids to a "museum" that promotes young-earth creationism. He was also listing himself on the official KHS website as the club's "teacher," and the club was posted on the KHS official site as part of the history department. Both of those overreaches have also been corrected. It is clear to us that Mr. Paszkiewicz will never accept the limitations on his role vis-a-vis this club.

So Paszkiewicz runs the school's website? Or am I missing something?

He appears to see it as his, which is contrary to the law - not surprising since he does not agree with the law and has made no secret of his willingness to violate it.

Where is that supposed willingness to violate the law clearly expressed in the public record, please?

I understand that people don't want to be bothered with this, but if you live in Kearny, this man is a threat to your wallet every day he represents the school district. He is disaster waiting to happen (again), and if it does, we will have no defense because we are on notice. Put simply, we cannot trust him to abide by the law regarding these issues.

So you're saying that he has broken the law relatively recently? Or is there some other evidence that drives us to the conclusion that he cannot be trusted to obey the law?

We do not question the club's right to exist. It has existed for approximately a year and a half with no complaint from us. In fact, I believe I have stated that before, publicly, and wished the club well. It is unfortunate that some people seem to feel a need to accuse us of things we are not doing. The most likely explanation is that they do not wish to see the issue for what it is. If this was a popular position to take, Matthew and I wouldn't be so alone in taking it.

I continue to invite the people of Kearny to address this issue. If you're not concerned about science education or church-state separation, then do it to protect your wallets.

Good grief. This guy supported Obama and he wants folks to worry about their wallets because of Paszkiewicz.

We have no defense if Mr. Paszkiewicz puts us in a position of having to defend what could be a very expensive lawsuit. The district spent over $120,000 on legal fees over our issue with Mr. Paszkiewicz before, even though we spent the whole time trying to work it out with them and avoid any expense.

Time is money. Trying to work it out costs money, unless you did all the talking as well as any listening that went on.

If the next person to complain is looking for a payday, he or she just might get it. It could cost us millions.

Meh. Think of it as economic stimulus.

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You misunderstood me. As I already wrote, they have every right to have the club.

My point is that it is offensive when that club is used to undermine the very educational system that makes the club possible. On the trip that just took place, this club was used to promote ignorance, and they put 1,500 miles on one of our buses to do it. They were going to take the day off and force us to pay two substitute teachers until we put a stop to that. It is offensive and it is wrong.

In sum: the students should be able to have any club they like so long as it isn't illegal. (You do realize that means that a Nazi youth club would be legal, right?) By law, it must be entirely student driven and student led. I do not believe the taxpayers should be forced to have their tax dollars used in the promotion of ignorance.

Being a concerned parent, I cannot believe how low you will stoop to have to compare this club to the Nazi youth. As an outsided to this club you have no understanding of what good happens as a result of it. And this is good for the students. Yet you use it as ammunitionn in your constant fight against this teacher.

As far as the bus is concerned, these students paid for the bus and with that payment comes the wear and tear of the vehicle equipment, and that also included the tires. That is a poor argument, especially from someone who thinks he is a lawyer. And this comes at the same time that your son is promoting a special on some New York radio station. There is not one tax payer who is forced to pay anything except the money you forced for the Board of Education to pay for the supposed mental damage that was done to your son as a result of his bantering to this teacher some years ago. It's just you who cannot let it go.

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In regard to Paul's implied assertion that the future might bring about the acceptance of hypothetical clubs at KHS like NAMBLA, Nazi or Playboy Reading Clubs, he does not seem to factor in the process for forming student clubs at KHS. Recently I learned:

1. A club must be student initiated.

2. The student(s) must solicit a faculty adviser.

3. A charter (outlining the purpose of the club) must be brought before the VP of Student Activities.

4. A petition for the club must be signed by, I believe, 20 or more students who desire the club.

5 Those students must then come before the student council to have their club charter voted on for approval by the Student Government Association.

In short, it is highly unlikely that a Nambla, Nazi or Playboy Reading club would be approved at KHS for at least the following reasons:

1. No faculty member would chose to advise it.

2. There would not be enough student signatures on the petition. (thank God the students have more sense than Paul)

3. It certainly would not be approved by the Student Government Association.

Of course Paul doesn't care what the students or their parents want (According to the Kearny Journal last year the Alpha and Omega Club had 50 signatures and when voted on by the SGA, 72 voted in favor with only 3 abstaining. The 3 didn't even vote no, they abstained! It doesn't seem to matter to Paul at all what the students or their parents want. Paul thinks he's the only taxpayer in Kearny. In addition, he is not content to attack the existence of the club, he finds it necessary also to attack the deeply held beliefs of its members and their parents.

Do those criteria conform to federal law: the Equal Access Act?

How many times does he have to tell you that he has no problem with the club's existence?

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The Protestants are losing Souter. Care to guess the religion of Judge Sotomayor? Another Roman Catholic. Somehow, there's a secret sect of Roman Catholics in league with the evangelicals in trying to take over the government. Fortunately, other Roman Catholics stand in their way.

The issue is whether the Court will respect and maintain separation of church and state. Scalia and Thomas have no respect for it at all, and the other right wingers aren't much better. It doesn't matter whether they're Catholic or Protestant, or for that matter, Wiccan, Buddhist or atheist. What matters is whether they will maintain separation.

Where is that supposed willingness to violate the law clearly expressed in the public record, please?

So you're saying that he has broken the law relatively recently? Or is there some other evidence that drives us to the conclusion that he cannot be trusted to obey the law?

Apparently he tried to justify a trip to the so-called "Creation Museum" as an educational field trip to further an understanding of science. That's contrary to the Edwards case (Supreme Court) and the Kitzmiller case in Dover, PA.

We know he can't be trusted. All except you, Bryan.

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In short, it is highly unlikely that a Nambla, Nazi or Playboy Reading club would be approved at KHS for at least the following reasons:

1. No faculty member would chose to advise it.

2. There would not be enough student signatures on the petition. (thank God the students have more sense than Paul)

3. It certainly would not be approved by the Student Government Association.

Of course Paul doesn't care what the students or their parents want (According to the Kearny Journal last year the Alpha and Omega Club had 50 signatures and when voted on by the SGA, 72 voted in favor with only 3 abstaining. The 3 didn't even vote no, they abstained! It doesn't seem to matter to Paul at all what the students or their parents want. Paul thinks he's the only taxpayer in Kearny. In addition, he is not content to attack the existence of the club, he finds it necessary also to attack the deeply held beliefs of its members and their parents.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Those restrictions are illegal. The school district can't discriminate based on the size of the group or its popularity, and it can't give a veto to the student council or the school's administrators. See http://www.freedomforum.org/publications/f...tudentClubs.pdf , pp. 120-123.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the geniuses in the Kearny school system didn't do it that way.

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