David Paszkiewicz's letter in the Observer

[Guest Keith]

I'm a Christian and I don't care what idiotic atheists believe or don't believe. I think atheists have a fundamental flaw in their brains that prevents them from seeing what every Christian sees, a beautiful world full of amazing life forms that only an intelligent designer could have created.

So those who don't believe as you do are flawed? That's so very christian of you. Typical.

[Guest Guest]

No.

We.

Don't.

Stop lying about what we believe. It makes you look like an idiot. We've been telling you the same thing for several pages. Here's a question-how would you know what atheists believe? You aren't one.

A religious person could say the same of you.

[Guest *Autonomous*]

A religious person could say the same of you.

Prove it.

Feel free to find me lying about religion.

[Guest Guest]

A religious person could say the same of you.

And they do, all the time, but the difference is that these so-called "religious" people tend to make stuff up regardless of the facts. They seem to think that if they think it or say it, that makes it true.

[Guest Guest]

I'm a Christian and I don't care what idiotic atheists believe or don't believe. I think atheists have a fundamental flaw in their brains that prevents them from seeing what every Christian sees, a beautiful world full of amazing life forms that only an intelligent designer could have created.

If that's true:

Why do most animals die in the jaws of other animals who are killing them as food?

Why does every sentient creature decline physically, then die - assuming they aren't suddenly killed or stricken dead?

Why does every sentient creature suffer?

Why are innocent creatures, human and otherwise, born deformed?

If a god, having the power to create the world any way he liked, had done this on purpose, he would be an idiot and an immoral monster.

Now you probably think I just called God an idiot. Not so. I'm calling your belief idiotic.

Because it is.

You're the one calling God an idiot. Because you're the one who thinks there's a god who did this on purpose.

And don't give me that garbage about how two people sinned and screwed everything up. That's one of the lamest excuses I've ever heard for making innocent creatures suffer.

And if you can't see that, then maybe there's something wrong with your brain.

[Guest Guest]

Calling people idiots is a choice. So is presuming that you see more beauty in the world than someone who doesn't agree with you.

I learned many years ago that when someone's ideas struck me as so odd that "they must be crazy," very often I was the one who didn't understand. When I read things like what you just wrote, it's usually a sign that the writer doesn't know as much as he or she thinks. Maybe you're the one who's missing something. You can write ugly things like that if you want to, but is that really the lesson your Christianity teaches you? I'm no longer a Christian, but I think more of it than that. Meanwhile . . .

I see the sun.

I hear the rolling thunder. . . .

just like you do.

Which of us appreciates it the more . . . I'm not interested in keeping score.

I wonder what "Kris" would think about that. Hmmmm.

[Guest Patriot]

Prove it.

Feel free to find me lying about religion.

What would an ex-motor pool grunt know about religion?

[Guest Guest]

What would an ex-motor pool grunt know about religion?

Apparently more than you do with remarks like that.

You must take a long time typing these well-thought-out posts with one finger in your nose.

[Guest *Autonomous*]

What would an ex-motor pool grunt know about religion?

Who's writing about religion? We've been discussing ID. ID is a belief held by religious people but not a religious belief. Neither of the two largest Christian sects in America believe in it-the official doctrine of the Catholics is theistic evolution and the Southern Baptists are primarily Young-Earth Creationists. Ergo, while most IDers are Christian, most Christians are not IDers. You are the one that thinks I'm trying to disprove God. In actuality I have no problem with theistic evolutionists. For that matter I'd have no problem with ID if you people wouldn't keep trying to put it in schools.

Unlike you I believe that people are free to believe whatever they want and unlike some of the above so-called Christians I don't look down on others for what they believe. However, I do look down on the obstinate ignorance of people like 2dim who try to tell me what I believe even after being told what I believe. Note that after Paul and I posted actual science disproving his serendipity claim he ran away crying like a little girl.

[Bern]

What would an ex-motor pool grunt know about religion?

This comment did not being anything useful at all to this debate. Its just a trollish comment to get a rise out of others.

It certainly reflects poorly on the posters maturity.

[Guest Guest]

Who's writing about religion? We've been discussing ID. ID is a belief held by religious people but not a religious belief. Neither of the two largest Christian sects in America believe in it-the official doctrine of the Catholics is theistic evolution and the Southern Baptists are primarily Young-Earth Creationists. Ergo, while most IDers are Christian, most Christians are not IDers. You are the one that thinks I'm trying to disprove God. In actuality I have no problem with theistic evolutionists. For that matter I'd have no problem with ID if you people wouldn't keep trying to put it in schools.

Unlike you I believe that people are free to believe whatever they want and unlike some of the above so-called Christians I don't look down on others for what they believe. However, I do look down on the obstinate ignorance of people like 2dim who try to tell me what I believe even after being told what I believe. Note that after Paul and I posted actual science disproving his serendipity claim he ran away crying like a little girl.

PatRat, a/k/a 2dim4words, formerly a/k/a BushBacker isn't able to think in such complex terms. Really, if you read what they, I mean he writes, it's all reaction, no thought. Try to think about how you might talk to a parrot.

[Guest Polly the Parrot]

PatRat, a/k/a 2dim4words, formerly a/k/a BushBacker isn't able to think in such complex terms. Really, if you read what they, I mean he writes, it's all reaction, no thought. Try to think about how you might talk to a parrot.

What? You got a problem with parrots?

[Guest Guest]

Prove it.

Feel free to find me lying about religion.

There's nothing to prove. This statement that you made is completely idiotic.

"Here's a question-how would you know what atheists believe? You aren't one."

Better get back to turning those wrenches.

[Guest Guest]

There's nothing to prove. This statement that you made is completely idiotic.

"Here's a question-how would you know what atheists believe? You aren't one."

Better get back to turning those wrenches.

The statement was in response to this: "Atheists can believe in serendipity, mother nature or whatever else they can dream up."

It is the statement about what atheists supposedly believe that is idiotic. In the first place, not all atheists believe the same things. Second and more important, what was under discussion, until every time the fundies changed the subject, was what we know about the origins of life. We don't know everything, but all we do know, we know through science. That's a fact.

The subject was changed a lot because deep down people who believe in a god know there's no basis for it. So they have to ignore the facts in order to continue to believe in their fairy tales.

What's idiotic is the unceasing insistence on ignoring the facts by people who think they need to believe in a sky-god and that everyone else should, too.

[Guest *Autonomous*]

There's nothing to prove. This statement that you made is completely idiotic.

"Here's a question-how would you know what atheists believe? You aren't one."

Better get back to turning those wrenches.

What's idiotic about that? 2dim has spent pages telling me what I'm supposed to believe. What he's saying is not what I believe. So either he's lying or he doesn't know what atheists believe. That's pretty much the only options.

Btw-I'm not a mechanic, doofus. However, unlike you I don't look down on ANYONE who is serving in our nation's military.

[Guest Patriot]

What's idiotic about that? 2dim has spent pages telling me what I'm supposed to believe. What he's saying is not what I believe. So either he's lying or he doesn't know what atheists believe. That's pretty much the only options.

Btw-I'm not a mechanic, doofus. However, unlike you I don't look down on ANYONE who is serving in our nation's military.

'nomous is a strange bird. He professes to be a far left liberal and claims to be ex-military, an odd combination. He also defends the demented views of atheists while claiming not to be one himself. I think he's been smoking some bad weed.

[Guest Guest]

'nomous is a strange bird. He professes to be a far left liberal and claims to be ex-military, an odd combination. He also defends the demented views of atheists while claiming not to be one himself. I think he's been smoking some bad weed.

I wonder what "Kris" would think about this?

[Guest *Autonomous*]

'nomous is a strange bird. He professes to be a far left liberal and claims to be ex-military, an odd combination. He also defends the demented views of atheists while claiming not to be one himself. I think he's been smoking some bad weed.

I don't profess to be a far left liberal. I've stated that I'm registered independent several times. As for military service-you claim to be a vet yet constantly insult our fighting men-an odd combination. Paul is the one who says he isn't an atheist-I've openly said that I am one several times. Looks like your the one smoking something.

[Guest Autonomnous]

Seeing as how the anti-evolution IDiots have descended to silly ad hominem attacks rather than attempt to refute the actual science posted by Paul and myself, I hereby declare yet another victory for the forces of reason.

[Guest Guest]

Seeing as how the anti-evolution IDiots have descended to silly ad hominem attacks rather than attempt to refute the actual science posted by Paul and myself, I hereby declare yet another victory for the forces of reason.

See kids, this is why they tell you to "just say no".

[Guest Paul]

I don't profess to be a far left liberal. I've stated that I'm registered independent several times. As for military service-you claim to be a vet yet constantly insult our fighting men-an odd combination. Paul is the one who says he isn't an atheist-I've openly said that I am one several times. Looks like your the one smoking something.

I've never said I wasn't an atheist, but I don't think of myself that way so I don't usually use the label. There are a couple of reasons.

Depending on how you define the term, you may or may not think I'm an atheist. Most theists think I am, but quite a few atheists think I'm not. It's amusing how each group defines the term in a way that puts me on the opposite side from themselves.

Then of course there are the details of what the word means. If an atheist is someone who says categorically there is no God and I know it, then I'm not an atheist. If an atheist is a person who does not affirmatively believe in a supreme being, then I am. If you insist that God has a fiery hell waiting for those who don't choose the right religion, then I wear the banner "atheist" with pride. I can't for the life of me understand why an adult would believe that, or how human cultures can still believe such a horrid and destructive idea after all we've been through and how far we've come.

Most important, though, I don't define myself by what I don't believe. I'm more likely to call myself a Humanist, or better still, just a person.

[Guest *Autonomous*]

See kids, this is why they tell you to "just say no".

What a cowardly response. Typical of creationism's dishonesty, as a quick search shows 5 posts by 2Smart4U using the exact same language. Feel free to respond to the science-otherwise by anyone's standards you've lost.

[Guest Guest]

What a cowardly response. Typical of creationism's dishonesty, as a quick search shows 5 posts by 2Smart4U using the exact same language. Feel free to respond to the science-otherwise by anyone's standards you've lost.

You have no credibility. Even your "buddy" Paul just called you a liar and threw you under the bus.

[Guest Guest]

I've never said I wasn't an atheist, but I don't think of myself that way so I don't usually use the label. There are a couple of reasons.

Depending on how you define the term, you may or may not think I'm an atheist. Most theists think I am, but quite a few atheists think I'm not. It's amusing how each group defines the term in a way that puts me on the opposite side from themselves.

Then of course there are the details of what the word means. If an atheist is someone who says categorically there is no God and I know it, then I'm not an atheist. If an atheist is a person who does not affirmatively believe in a supreme being, then I am. If you insist that God has a fiery hell waiting for those who don't choose the right religion, then I wear the banner "atheist" with pride. I can't for the life of me understand why an adult would believe that, or how human cultures can still believe such a horrid and destructive idea after all we've been through and how far we've come.

Most important, though, I don't define myself by what I don't believe. I'm more likely to call myself a Humanist, or better still, just a person.

Sounds like neither camp wants you.

[Guest Paul]

Sounds like neither camp wants you.

No, they both want me to agree with them wholesale.