ACORN and Obama, Perfect together

[Guest Guest]

"Most people think Matthew's actions were courageous and heroic." So this is fact? Looks like opinion to me.

No, it's a fact. The proof is still all over the internet.

[Guest Paul]

Disassociated himself from the mob? John would tell you that the mafia doesn't even exist. Are you saying that if John Gotti stopped his criminal activity and went into a normal life, even after all he had done, that he would be a respected member of the community? You're very forgiving. Maybe he can move in next to you.

I never said anything about Obama having the same mindset as Ayres. But I'm sure he must have known the background.

Ayres, not too long ago, had said that he wished he had done more damage. He only stopped when he new that they would put him away forever. So I doubt that he is truly reformed.

One of the most beautiful and moving Christian tapes I ever heard was from a former mob figure who was born again spiritually, changed his life and became a responsible citizen. His mother, who knew of his mob activity, said to him when he came to visit her: "You didn't have to tell me you found Jesus. I could see him walking with you the minute you came in." (I wouldn't agree with her interpretation, but I understand what she was saying, and it's beautiful.) People who knew him in his mob days told him that they used to be afraid of him, but they weren't any more. He was completely changed, and yes, I'd be happy to have a person like that living next door to me. We could have some fascinating theological discussions.

I don't care whether Ayres is "truly reformed" in your eyes, because you insist on absolute proof so you can keep harping on this. And of course, there is no such thing as absolute proof about what's going on inside someone. The point is that he has lived responsibly, has stopped any wrongful activity and does not appear to present a danger to anyone.

But that doesn't even matter regarding Obama. It's ridiculous that we're even having this discussion. This is what Republicans do every election. They make up crap and throw it against the wall to see what will stick. Obama did nothing different than many other people did, some of them Republicans. It wasn't illegal, it wasn't irresponsible and it wasn't dangerous. This shouldn't even be an issue.

[Guest Paul]

Paul, even a liberal would call your views loony left. By all accounts, John Gotti killed or had killed many people. He got what he deserved, dying of cancer in prison. Rehabilitation is for drug addicts, punishment is for criminals.

I agree with you that John Gotti belongs in prison because he is a violence criminal. (He has other people do it for him, so he is a violence criminal, not a violent criminal.)

A hypothetical was offered. You can't revoke the premises of the hypothetical and at the same time try to analyze it on its original terms.

[Guest Guest]

No, it's a fact. The proof is still all over the internet.

Wrong again. That's not proof it's opinion.

[Guest Keith]

Disassociated himself from the mob? John would tell you that the mafia doesn't even exist. Are you saying that if John Gotti stopped his criminal activity and went into a normal life, even after all he had done, that he would be a respected member of the community? You're very forgiving. Maybe he can move in next to you.

I never said anything about Obama having the same mindset as Ayres. But I'm sure he must have known the background.

Ayres, not too long ago, had said that he wished he had done more damage. He only stopped when he new that they would put him away forever. So I doubt that he is truly reformed.

McCain and G. Gordon Liddy. 'nuff said.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I agree with you that John Gotti belongs in prison because he is a violence criminal. (He has other people do it for him, so he is a violence criminal, not a violent criminal.)

A hypothetical was offered. You can't revoke the premises of the hypothetical and at the same time try to analyze it on its original terms.

A "violence" criminal ? Paul, I think you've lost it. Only an absolute nut case would make a distinction like that.

[Guest Paul]

A "violence" criminal ? Paul, I think you've lost it. Only an absolute nut case would make a distinction like that.

I had actually written "violent" criminal, but changed it because I figured you would jump all over the inaccuracy. I was being especially careful just for you, and as I expressed, either way he should be in prison. So we don't actually disagree on the point, but apparently you like disagreement.

Do you write ridiculous and meaningless things on purpose, or are you really incapable of making simple distinctions? I probably shouldn't pay any attention to it, but I really meant it when I called you "fellow American." I'm sorry that you don't seem to take that distinction seriously. I truly wish you could hear what I'm saying. If you listen to General Powell from his Meet the Press appearance today, you'll hear the gist of it. Please, this is about saving the country we both claim to love.

[Guest Loki]

For the sake of argument let's say that the lefties are trying to steal the election. s**ks doesn't it? Makes you feel cheated doesn't it? I wonder where the lefties learned it? I give you Katheryn Harris and Gore v. Bush 2000

Read it and weep, son.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-bak...conducted-media

For anyone not interested in reading the whole thing, it talks about the recount of major news outlets (NY Times for one),

and admitting that their own recount showed that Bush still would have won.

Has this been troubling you for EIGHT YEARS? Let it go, no one should be that bitter. Oh wait, you're a lib. Sorry.

[Guest Keith]

Read it and weep, son.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-bak...conducted-media

For anyone not interested in reading the whole thing, it talks about the recount of major news outlets (NY Times for one),

and admitting that their own recount showed that Bush still would have won.

Has this been troubling you for EIGHT YEARS? Let it go, no one should be that bitter. Oh wait, you're a lib. Sorry.

Yes it has been troubling me for 8 years. GW is a war criminal. Does that not bother you,son?

[Guest Guest]

I agree with you that John Gotti belongs in prison because he is a violence criminal. (He has other people do it for him, so he is a violence criminal, not a violent criminal.)

A hypothetical was offered. You can't revoke the premises of the hypothetical and at the same time try to analyze it on its original terms.

He did plenty personally.

[Guest Guest]

One of the most beautiful and moving Christian tapes I ever heard was from a former mob figure who was born again spiritually, changed his life and became a responsible citizen. His mother, who knew of his mob activity, said to him when he came to visit her: "You didn't have to tell me you found Jesus. I could see him walking with you the minute you came in." (I wouldn't agree with her interpretation, but I understand what she was saying, and it's beautiful.) People who knew him in his mob days told him that they used to be afraid of him, but they weren't any more. He was completely changed, and yes, I'd be happy to have a person like that living next door to me. We could have some fascinating theological discussions.

I don't care whether Ayres is "truly reformed" in your eyes, because you insist on absolute proof so you can keep harping on this. And of course, there is no such thing as absolute proof about what's going on inside someone. The point is that he has lived responsibly, has stopped any wrongful activity and does not appear to present a danger to anyone.

But that doesn't even matter regarding Obama. It's ridiculous that we're even having this discussion. This is what Republicans do every election. They make up crap and throw it against the wall to see what will stick. Obama did nothing different than many other people did, some of them Republicans. It wasn't illegal, it wasn't irresponsible and it wasn't dangerous. This shouldn't even be an issue.

I don't think everyone can be reformed. I believe someone like Ayres is in that category. Are we really supposed to believe that he did and thought the way he did and now he's OK?

[Guest Guest]

I don't think everyone can be reformed. I believe someone like Ayres is in that category. Are we really supposed to believe that he did and thought the way he did and now he's OK?

Yes. He has lived peacably in the community for several decades now with no hint of additional criminal activity. By every reasonable standard, he is reformed.

[Guest Paul]

I don't think everyone can be reformed. I believe someone like Ayres is in that category. Are we really supposed to believe that he did and thought the way he did and now he's OK?

You don't see evidence that Ayres is reformed, apparently. Well, I don't see any evidence that you're thinking logically or objectively. Ayres has lived a responsible life for several decades now. Your saying that he cannot be reformed is just empty words. What evidence do you have? None.

[Guest *Autonomous*]

I don't think everyone can be reformed. I believe someone like Ayres is in that category. Are we really supposed to believe that he did and thought the way he did and now he's OK?

Can you actually tell us precisely what he did? I know, but I rather doubt you do.

[Guest Guest]

Yes. He has lived peacably in the community for several decades now with no hint of additional criminal activity. By every reasonable standard, he is reformed.

So the fact that he said he wished he'd done more doesn't bother you? Maybe he hasn't been building bombs but he still holds the mindset of hate.

[Guest Guest]

So the fact that he said he wished he'd done more doesn't bother you? Maybe he hasn't been building bombs but he still holds the mindset of hate.

So do a lot of Republicans, from what I'm seeing. Before you accuse other people of having a "mindset of hate," take a look at some of the hateful things being said by Republicans on line and at McCain and Palin rallies - and McCain and Palin usually do nothing about it. Listen to Limbaugh and many other right-wing talk show hosts, and their guests, then let's talk about a mindset of hate. Listen to the bigotry and hatefulness dripping from the Republican party these days. It's a main reason for Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama. Listen for once to what's actually going on. Then look in the mirror.

Ayres' comments perk my ears up, but until he does something wrong or actually threatens to do something in the future, his comments are not a crime. If you don't like it, get the criminal laws changed. But if you do that, watch out for the thought police.

It doesn't bother me with respect to Obama. You're trying to make this weak association into a big deal. Well, it's not. Most Americans are more concerned about the economy, the war and other issues than in your silly little games. And if you want to play that game, McCain has close associations with terrorists, murderers and other criminals.

[WilliamK]

I don't think everyone can be reformed. I believe someone like Ayres is in that category.

Why? Do you put Liddy in that category too? If not, why not?

[Guest Loki]

Yes it has been troubling me for 8 years. GW is a war criminal. Does that not bother you,son?

A war criminal according to YOU. I hate when people say "Bush lied", blah, blah, blah; when there are COUNTLESS Democrats who believed exactly the same things. It takes two minutes to find these quotes.

Some will argue that the President is given greater intelligence, but I counter with Clinton, too, was president. He believed that Iraq had WMD's etc. This is not a shot at Clinton, merely a comparison of information I believe they both received.

Noticed you didn't respond to the news agencies' recount results. That's a shame. Libs, never let truth or facts get in the way of a good argument.

[Guest Keith]

A war criminal according to YOU. I hate when people say "Bush lied", blah, blah, blah; when there are COUNTLESS Democrats who believed exactly the same things. It takes two minutes to find these quotes.

Some will argue that the President is given greater intelligence, but I counter with Clinton, too, was president. He believed that Iraq had WMD's etc. This is not a shot at Clinton, merely a comparison of information I believe they both received.

Noticed you didn't respond to the news agencies' recount results. That's a shame. Libs, never let truth or facts get in the way of a good argument.

It's the president's final decision to take us to war. I don't care who did or did not agree with him. That point is moot. This is a war for profit , no more no less and yes, that is criminal.

[Guest Guest]

A war criminal according to YOU. I hate when people say "Bush lied", blah, blah, blah; when there are COUNTLESS Democrats who believed exactly the same things. It takes two minutes to find these quotes.

Some will argue that the President is given greater intelligence, but I counter with Clinton, too, was president. He believed that Iraq had WMD's etc. This is not a shot at Clinton, merely a comparison of information I believe they both received.

Noticed you didn't respond to the news agencies' recount results. That's a shame. Libs, never let truth or facts get in the way of a good argument.

If Clinton had taken us into an unnecessary war based on cherry-picked intelligence, then you could blame it on him, but he didn't. The point is that Bush knew damn well what he was doing. He had an agenda to go into Iraq from the day he entered the White House. 9/11 was his excuse. To me, that's a war criminal. And no, I'm not going to argue about it. It is very well documented by people who were in the White House when he did it, and privy to the information.

[Guest Guest]

A war criminal according to YOU. I hate when people say "Bush lied", blah, blah, blah; when there are COUNTLESS Democrats who believed exactly the same things. It takes two minutes to find these quotes.

Some will argue that the President is given greater intelligence, but I counter with Clinton, too, was president. He believed that Iraq had WMD's etc. This is not a shot at Clinton, merely a comparison of information I believe they both received.

Noticed you didn't respond to the news agencies' recount results. That's a shame. Libs, never let truth or facts get in the way of a good argument.

You're are right. Now that Powell has sided with Obama, all the liberals love him. Not bad for a guy that pushed the war with Iraq a few years ago.

[Guest Guest]

Why? Do you put Liddy in that category too? If not, why not?

He might be worse.

The point was did Obama know of Ayres activity.

[Guest Patriot]

McCain and G. Gordon Liddy. 'nuff said.

G. Gordon Liddy is a true American Patriot.

[Guest Guest]

You're are right. Now that Powell has sided with Obama, all the liberals love him. Not bad for a guy that pushed the war with Iraq a few years ago.

A generation from now our children won't care which politicians you liked or didn't like, or that I liked or didn't like. They will care about the policies our government followed, the effects of those policies, and what they're going to do with whatever we leave them.

You right wingers just can't seem to get over yourselves. It's not about your personal likes and dislikes. It's about what's best for the country.

[Guest Guest]

He might be worse.

The point was did Obama know of Ayres activity.

No, the point is that Ayres' previous activities had nothing to do with the minimal association he had with Obama.

On the other hand, if you want to apply your standard, McCain certain knew that Liddy is an ex-convict who has promoted murder, terrorism and other criminal acts.

The facts really don't matter to you, do they?