ACORN and Obama, Perfect together

[Guest 2smart4u]

The FBI is now reporting widespread voter fraud by ACORN in at least a dozen states. Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago, but I'm sure Obama didn't know anything about ACORN's criminal activities, like he didn't know William Ayres was a terrorist when he sat in Ayer's livingroom planning his run for Congress.

Bubba Clinton was right, this guy is the biggest fairytale and con artist of all time, Nixon had nothing on Obama. The Democratic party is so rabid about electing Obama that they're willing to overlook fraudulent voting registrations to get him elected.

A question for Paul; How many passes does Obama get before you acknowledge Obama's nothing more than a slick Chicago lawyer that's trying to steal the presidency?

[Guest Paul]

The FBI is now reporting widespread voter fraud by ACORN in at least a dozen states. Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago, but I'm sure Obama didn't know anything about ACORN's criminal activities, like he didn't know William Ayres was a terrorist when he sat in Ayer's livingroom planning his run for Congress.

Bubba Clinton was right, this guy is the biggest fairytale and con artist of all time, Nixon had nothing on Obama. The Democratic party is so rabid about electing Obama that they're willing to overlook fraudulent voting registrations to get him elected.

A question for Paul; How many passes does Obama get before you acknowledge Obama's nothing more than a slick Chicago lawyer that's trying to steal the presidency?

I'm very disappointed in you. You invited a discussion, but you don't discuss. What you're doing is not citizenship or patriotism. The remarks above are cheap insinuation, nothing more, and you don't even have the integrity or the courage to put your name to it.

You are my fellow American, but it's because of Americans like you that we're in the trouble we're in. You seem to think you can build a country with cheap shots, zingers, one liners and vicious attacks on everyone who doesn't agree with you. You make this country and the whole world worse. Shame on you.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I'm very disappointed in you. You invited a discussion, but you don't discuss. What you're doing is not citizenship or patriotism. The remarks above are cheap insinuation, nothing more, and you don't even have the integrity or the courage to put your name to it.

You are my fellow American, but it's because of Americans like you that we're in the trouble we're in. You seem to think you can build a country with cheap shots, zingers, one liners and vicious attacks on everyone who doesn't agree with you. You make this country and the whole world worse. Shame on you.

Paul, my fellow American, my remarks are not cheap insinuations. There is evidence of voter fraud in a dozen states , individuals have testified about registering multiple times, some as many as seventy times. ACORN employees have testified they were instructed to go through phone books and copy names randomly, all voting for Obama.

ACORN is a leftist organization and Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago. These facts can be confirmed on line.

The far left is trying to steal this election, this should to plain to see for everyone, I don't know why you can't.

Paul, as educated as you are, you are incredibly narrow-minded. You refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing by anyone on the left. The FBI is investigating ACORN in 12 states, I wonder if the FBI realizes they're wasting their time investigating cheap insinuations, zingers and one liners?

[Guest Lincoln Logger]

I'm very disappointed in you. You invited a discussion, but you don't discuss. What you're doing is not citizenship or patriotism. The remarks above are cheap insinuation, nothing more, and you don't even have the integrity or the courage to put your name to it.

You are my fellow American, but it's because of Americans like you that we're in the trouble we're in. You seem to think you can build a country with cheap shots, zingers, one liners and vicious attacks on everyone who doesn't agree with you. You make this country and the whole world worse. Shame on you.

Now look who is calling the kettle black? The poison pen himself? The one with his merry band of corrupt lawyers brought a town to its knees. All for what? And now he again looks in the mirror and can't see himself in it and wonders why the world is in the shape it is in now. Not my fault? It never is Paul.

Read his original post again then ask see who is the antagonis here and why were are where we are?

cheaP, insinuAtion, vicioUs attacks, one Liners. Whats that spell people?

[Guest Paul]

Paul, my fellow American, my remarks are not cheap insinuations. There is evidence of voter fraud in a dozen states , individuals have testified about registering multiple times, some as many as seventy times. ACORN employees have testified they were instructed to go through phone books and copy names randomly, all voting for Obama.

ACORN is a leftist organization and Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago. These facts can be confirmed on line.

The far left is trying to steal this election, this should to plain to see for everyone, I don't know why you can't.

Paul, as educated as you are, you are incredibly narrow-minded. You refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing by anyone on the left. The FBI is investigating ACORN in 12 states, I wonder if the FBI realizes they're wasting their time investigating cheap insinuations, zingers and one liners?

They are cheap insinuations. Here's what you wrote: "Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago, but I'm sure Obama didn't know anything about ACORN's criminal activities, like he didn't know William Ayres was a terrorist when he sat in Ayer's livingroom planning his run for Congress."

So you admit you have no proof that Obama was aware of any criminal activity, and you overlook the fact that he's not their general counsel now. You're implicitly accusing without supporting facts. That's the very definition of a cheap insinuation.

Besides, all these accusations could be just another attempt by the Republicans to change the subject and suppress the vote - two birds with one stone. They've done it every election cycle. What makes you think this time is any different? Two can play the accusations game. I hope the FBI will do its investigation before the election. When the Republican party made charges like this in 2004, they turned out to be false. What makes you think these latest accusations are anything more than more Karl Rove politics? That's not proof either, but if all you have is insinuation, I can throw it right back at you. You're the one making the accusation. It's worthless unless you have facts.

Same thing with Ayres: Implicit accusation without supporting facts. In addition, Ayres' criminal activity was years ago. He has since rehabilitated himself, is a respected college professor, was named Chicago Citizen of the Year in 1997 and was invited to sit on a community board that included many Republicans. They didn't mind serving on it, so why should Obama? This is silly season. You're not even making sense. You're just trying to tar someone you don't agree with by any means possible, but there's no merit to the attempt.

In addition, being under investigation is not the same thing as being found to have done something wrong. I don't doubt that some on the left are trying to do illegal things, but so are many on the right, with the illegal voter purging and tactics designed to keep people from voting. Neither side is innocent, but until you have evidence that Obama is involved, or I have evidence that McCain is involved, any attack along those lines on either side is just a cheap insinuation - which is why I'm not accusing McCain of doing that, even though it's clear that his allies are.

If you're going to make an accusation against Obama himself, where are your facts?

[Guest Paul]

Now look who is calling the kettle black? The poison pen himself? The one with his merry band of corrupt lawyers brought a town to its knees. All for what? And now he again looks in the mirror and can't see himself in it and wonders why the world is in the shape it is in now. Not my fault? It never is Paul.

Read his original post again then ask see who is the antagonis here and why were are where we are?

cheaP, insinuAtion, vicioUs attacks, one Liners. Whats that spell people?

Do you have any names of these corrupt lawyers? What did they do that was corrupt? I'm of the view that words should mean something. Apparently you think they're just random weapons to be used regardless of their meaning or relationship to the facts.

Kearny isn't on its knees. Kearny is doing about as well as any other community from what I can tell. If you want to blame someone for the money that the BoE spent on the Paszkiewicz case, blame Mooney for trying to circle the wagons and defend the indefensible. Blame Paszkiewicz for not having the humility to acknowledge his wrongdoing. And blame yourself for whining and kicking and screaming that he got caught.

You'll be "happy" to know that Matthew just returned from a weekend in Sacramento, California, where he was given another award for what he did. He'll be speaking at the Westchester Ethical Society this Sunday. He'll be flying to London in February to attend an international Humanist conference if we can swing it.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't make insinuations. I state facts. An unpleasant fact doesn't become an insinuation just because you don't like it.

People who didn't like what happened called us all kinds of names, but in the end everything we said was proved true. That's not insinuation. It's fact.

[Guest Keith]

Paul, my fellow American, my remarks are not cheap insinuations. There is evidence of voter fraud in a dozen states , individuals have testified about registering multiple times, some as many as seventy times. ACORN employees have testified they were instructed to go through phone books and copy names randomly, all voting for Obama.

ACORN is a leftist organization and Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago. These facts can be confirmed on line.

The far left is trying to steal this election, this should to plain to see for everyone, I don't know why you can't.

Paul, as educated as you are, you are incredibly narrow-minded. You refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing by anyone on the left. The FBI is investigating ACORN in 12 states, I wonder if the FBI realizes they're wasting their time investigating cheap insinuations, zingers and one liners?

For the sake of argument let's say that the lefties are trying to steal the election. s**ks doesn't it? Makes you feel cheated doesn't it? I wonder where the lefties learned it? I give you Katheryn Harris and Gore v. Bush 2000

[Guest 2smart4u]

They are cheap insinuations. Here's what you wrote: "Obama was General Council to ACORN in Chicago, but I'm sure Obama didn't know anything about ACORN's criminal activities, like he didn't know William Ayres was a terrorist when he sat in Ayer's livingroom planning his run for Congress."

So you admit you have no proof that Obama was aware of any criminal activity, and you overlook the fact that he's not their general counsel now. You're implicitly accusing without supporting facts. That's the very definition of a cheap insinuation.

Besides, all these accusations could be just another attempt by the Republicans to change the subject and suppress the vote - two birds with one stone. They've done it every election cycle. What makes you think this time is any different? Two can play the accusations game. I hope the FBI will do its investigation before the election. When the Republican party made charges like this in 2004, they turned out to be false. What makes you think these latest accusations are anything more than more Karl Rove politics? That's not proof either, but if all you have is insinuation, I can throw it right back at you. You're the one making the accusation. It's worthless unless you have facts.

Same thing with Ayres: Implicit accusation without supporting facts. In addition, Ayres' criminal activity was years ago. He has since rehabilitated himself, is a respected college professor, was named Chicago Citizen of the Year in 1997 and was invited to sit on a community board that included many Republicans. They didn't mind serving on it, so why should Obama? This is silly season. You're not even making sense. You're just trying to tar someone you don't agree with by any means possible, but there's no merit to the attempt.

In addition, being under investigation is not the same thing as being found to have done something wrong. I don't doubt that some on the left are trying to do illegal things, but so are many on the right, with the illegal voter purging and tactics designed to keep people from voting. Neither side is innocent, but until you have evidence that Obama is involved, or I have evidence that McCain is involved, any attack along those lines on either side is just a cheap insinuation - which is why I'm not accusing McCain of doing that, even though it's clear that his allies are.

If you're going to make an accusation against Obama himself, where are your facts?

Can you possibly believe Obama sat in William Ayres livingroom without knowing about Ayres past. Please.

[Guest Patriot]

Do you have any names of these corrupt lawyers? What did they do that was corrupt? I'm of the view that words should mean something. Apparently you think they're just random weapons to be used regardless of their meaning or relationship to the facts.

Kearny isn't on its knees. Kearny is doing about as well as any other community from what I can tell. If you want to blame someone for the money that the BoE spent on the Paszkiewicz case, blame Mooney for trying to circle the wagons and defend the indefensible. Blame Paszkiewicz for not having the humility to acknowledge his wrongdoing. And blame yourself for whining and kicking and screaming that he got caught.

You'll be "happy" to know that Matthew just returned from a weekend in Sacramento, California, where he was given another award for what he did. He'll be speaking at the Westchester Ethical Society this Sunday. He'll be flying to London in February to attend an international Humanist conference if we can swing it.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't make insinuations. I state facts. An unpleasant fact doesn't become an insinuation just because you don't like it.

People who didn't like what happened called us all kinds of names, but in the end everything we said was proved true. That's not insinuation. It's fact.

Congratulations to junior. He seems to have been adopted by the loony atheists as their poster boy.

[Guest Guest]

Can you possibly believe Obama sat in William Ayres livingroom without knowing about Ayres past. Please.

What makes it so hard to believe? Here's a seemingly responsible member of the community offering to help in your first political campaign for a local office. Can you possibly believe that every such person is checked out by the candidate, Republican or Democrat? Please.

[Guest Guest]

Congratulations to junior. He seems to have been adopted by the loony atheists as their poster boy.

These are humanist groups, not necessarily atheist groups.

Besides, your bigotry may prove a point to you, but to reasonable people it's just bigotry.

[Guest Paul]

Can you possibly believe Obama sat in William Ayres livingroom without knowing about Ayres past. Please.

Yes I can. He was new in politics at the time. I wouldn't expect him to vet every potential supporter.

And even if he had known, so what? Ayres was by then a respected member of the community. There was nothing about him at the time to raise any red flags. You're trying to draw a conclusion about Obama that just doesn't follow from the evidence. Someone who was once engaged in violent and unlawful activity supported Obama many years later. So what?

[Guest Lincoln Logger]

Do you have any names of these corrupt lawyers? What did they do that was corrupt? I'm of the view that words should mean something. Apparently you think they're just random weapons to be used regardless of their meaning or relationship to the facts.

Kearny isn't on its knees. Kearny is doing about as well as any other community from what I can tell. If you want to blame someone for the money that the BoE spent on the Paszkiewicz case, blame Mooney for trying to circle the wagons and defend the indefensible. Blame Paszkiewicz for not having the humility to acknowledge his wrongdoing. And blame yourself for whining and kicking and screaming that he got caught.

You'll be "happy" to know that Matthew just returned from a weekend in Sacramento, California, where he was given another award for what he did. He'll be speaking at the Westchester Ethical Society this Sunday. He'll be flying to London in February to attend an international Humanist conference if we can swing it.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't make insinuations. I state facts. An unpleasant fact doesn't become an insinuation just because you don't like it.

People who didn't like what happened called us all kinds of names, but in the end everything we said was proved true. That's not insinuation. It's fact.

You sarcasm really hurt me. If you believe that then you probably believe your son is innocent. Nothing like riding the coat tails of your son. Even though he needed his daddy to bail his butt out of the hot water he got himself into in high school.

Am I supposed to believe because Paul says “fact” it is fact? I don’t think so and I am not one of your puppets. And while you go pointing blame at the administration of Kearny, coincidentally the same ones that educated both your children, and got them the notoriety they now have, you mock others saying they go “whining and kicking and screaming.” Save those comments for the little girls and your son.

[Guest Guest]

Can you possibly believe Obama sat in William Ayres livingroom without knowing about Ayres past. Please.

Talk about giving someone a free pass, look at you, 2dim. What about the likelihood that these charges against ACORN are ginned by the Republicans to suppress the vote, just like they do every election? What about that? Or do the Republicans get a free pass?

[Guest Guest]

Can you possibly believe Obama sat in William Ayres livingroom without knowing about Ayres past. Please.

It's completely possible, and you don't have any evidence that it's not so. Besides, who cares? McCain cares, but his sole agenda is to smear Obama by any means available, fair or foul. Why should an intelligent voter care? We shouldn't.

There are plenty of examples of people who were criminals early in life, then changed their lives and became mainstream. An example is Eldridge Cleaver, the Black Panther leader who later became a conservative Republican, supported Ronald Reagan and spoke at a California Republican State Central Committee meeting about his transformation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldridge_Cleaver The Republican party had no problem accepting his support. Why not?

Or consider Jerry Rubin, one of the Chicago Seven, who later became an entrepreneur and businessman and an early investor in Apple Computer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Rubin

Or Tom Hayden, also one of the Chicago Seven, who served in the California state legislature for years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hayden He was also an early Obama supporter. Why isn’t McCain going after that? It’s because the people know about Hayden and wouldn’t buy it. It’s easier to go after someone whose later life isn’t well known.

Bobby Seale, also of the Chicago Seven, has also lived a very respectable life since his early days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Seale

In the United States, we have always held the belief that people should be allowed to rehabilitate themselves and become functioning and productive members of society. If we don’t make room for that, we guarantee that we have to spend money on these people all their lives. Why can’t a person a person rehabilitate himself and be accepted in society to the fullest extent?

[Guest Guest]

Do you have any names of these corrupt lawyers? What did they do that was corrupt? I'm of the view that words should mean something. Apparently you think they're just random weapons to be used regardless of their meaning or relationship to the facts.

Kearny isn't on its knees. Kearny is doing about as well as any other community from what I can tell. If you want to blame someone for the money that the BoE spent on the Paszkiewicz case, blame Mooney for trying to circle the wagons and defend the indefensible. Blame Paszkiewicz for not having the humility to acknowledge his wrongdoing. And blame yourself for whining and kicking and screaming that he got caught.

You'll be "happy" to know that Matthew just returned from a weekend in Sacramento, California, where he was given another award for what he did. He'll be speaking at the Westchester Ethical Society this Sunday. He'll be flying to London in February to attend an international Humanist conference if we can swing it.

What you don't seem to understand is that I don't make insinuations. I state facts. An unpleasant fact doesn't become an insinuation just because you don't like it.

People who didn't like what happened called us all kinds of names, but in the end everything we said was proved true. That's not insinuation. It's fact.

You may have proven that a teacher was talking religion in his classroom and it's nice that Matthew is doing so well for himself. Too bad he'll never get past the sneaky and underhanded methods he used to do it. That's a fact, even though you don't like it. If that is what being a Humanist is all about you can keep it.

[Guest Guest]

Yes I can. He was new in politics at the time. I wouldn't expect him to vet every potential supporter.

And even if he had known, so what? Ayres was by then a respected member of the community. There was nothing about him at the time to raise any red flags. You're trying to draw a conclusion about Obama that just doesn't follow from the evidence. Someone who was once engaged in violent and unlawful activity supported Obama many years later. So what?

Come on Paul. That's quite a stretch, even for you. How does someone like Ayres become "a respected member of the community"? It's like trying to say someone like John Gotti was actually a respected member of the community.

[Guest Guest]

You sarcasm really hurt me. If you believe that then you probably believe your son is innocent. Nothing like riding the coat tails of your son. Even though he needed his daddy to bail his butt out of the hot water he got himself into in high school.

Am I supposed to believe because Paul says “fact” it is fact? I don’t think so and I am not one of your puppets. And while you go pointing blame at the administration of Kearny, coincidentally the same ones that educated both your children, and got them the notoriety they now have, you mock others saying they go “whining and kicking and screaming.” Save those comments for the little girls and your son.

In other words, no, you can’t identify any corrupt lawyers involved in Matthew’s case, can’t identify anything any lawyer on his side did that was wrong, can’t support your ridiculous claim that Kearny is on its knees, and aren’t willing to back up with facts any of the crap you’re slinging.

What hurts all of us is how obnoxious and arrogant and unthinking and unreasonable and unpatriotic you are. Patriotic citizens don’t accuse other citizens of doing bad things without evidence. Nice people don’t do it. Real Christians don’t do it. You were asked questions about your accusations. You were asked to back them up with facts. You don’t have anything to back you up, so you ignore the questions and make more accusations. There a lot of names for that, but I’d prefer not to write them here. You make this country and our community worse than it would be if you just kept your mouth shut.

And of course, you can’t back up any of your new accusations either. What is your basis for suggesting that Matthew was not innocent, except that you don’t like the fact that he caught a renegade teacher red-handed and let the entire administration and the teacher make themselves look foolish?

And no, you’re not supposed to believe what Paul or anyone else says just because they say it. But you are expected to present facts if you’re going to accuse and call names. So go ahead, ignore all of that and make more accusations.

Idiots like you are the ones who made Kearny an international laughingstock. As for my calling you an idiot, the facts back it up. Read what you wrote and try to defend it without changing the subject.

[Guest Guest]

These are humanist groups, not necessarily atheist groups.

Besides, your bigotry may prove a point to you, but to reasonable people it's just bigotry.

"Humanist groups"?? Make me laugh, they're all far left atheist groups and junior will carry that banner proudly.

[Guest Paul]

"Humanist groups"?? Make me laugh, they're all far left atheist groups and junior will carry that banner proudly.

Have you ever been to a Humanist meeting? You haven't have you? Many of us Humanists grew up in traditional religious homes, so we know what it's all about. I grew up a Roman Catholic. Have you had that kind of exposure to Humanists? I doubt it.

Matthew is speaking at Westchester Ethical Culture Society this weekend. Come join us. Then maybe you'll realize that Humanists are real people, just like you, who don't eat their young and are doing the best they can - just like you are.

[Guest Paul]

Come on Paul. That's quite a stretch, even for you. How does someone like Ayres become "a respected member of the community"? It's like trying to say someone like John Gotti was actually a respected member of the community.

If John Gotti had ever disassociated himself from the mob, he could have rehabilitated himself, too, but he didn't. So your comparison is invalid.

Now do you understand that? To make a comparison, you need a parallel, and you don't have one. I know that sounds like I'm lecturing you, and I am, but that's because you make these arguments without thinking them through.

So you tell me. How did Ayres become a respected member of the community? Because he is. He was named Citizen of the Year in 1997 and is a respected college professor. Those are facts. He has lived a good life and contributed to his community. These things do happen, you know.

All you have are your biases. You are desperate to tar Barack Obama with the Bill Ayres of forty years ago when Obama was 8, and thereby somehow prove that Obama is something he is not. And when the facts don't back you up, you just ignore them. Which is why, instead of actually making a valid point against what I wrote, you just express your indignation.

[Guest Guest]

You may have proven that a teacher was talking religion in his classroom and it's nice that Matthew is doing so well for himself. Too bad he'll never get past the sneaky and underhanded methods he used to do it. That's a fact, even though you don't like it. If that is what being a Humanist is all about you can keep it.

"Sneaky" and "underhanded" are opinions, not facts. Most people think Matthew's actions were courageous and heroic. You're entitled to any opinions you want to hold, but they are not facts.

[Guest Guest]

If John Gotti had ever disassociated himself from the mob, he could have rehabilitated himself, too, but he didn't. So your comparison is invalid.

Now do you understand that? To make a comparison, you need a parallel, and you don't have one. I know that sounds like I'm lecturing you, and I am, but that's because you make these arguments without thinking them through.

So you tell me. How did Ayres become a respected member of the community? Because he is. He was named Citizen of the Year in 1997 and is a respected college professor. Those are facts. He has lived a good life and contributed to his community. These things do happen, you know.

All you have are your biases. You are desperate to tar Barack Obama with the Bill Ayres of forty years ago when Obama was 8, and thereby somehow prove that Obama is something he is not. And when the facts don't back you up, you just ignore them. Which is why, instead of actually making a valid point against what I wrote, you just express your indignation.

Disassociated himself from the mob? John would tell you that the mafia doesn't even exist. Are you saying that if John Gotti stopped his criminal activity and went into a normal life, even after all he had done, that he would be a respected member of the community? You're very forgiving. Maybe he can move in next to you.

I never said anything about Obama having the same mindset as Ayres. But I'm sure he must have known the background.

Ayres, not too long ago, had said that he wished he had done more damage. He only stopped when he new that they would put him away forever. So I doubt that he is truly reformed.

[Guest Guest]

"Sneaky" and "underhanded" are opinions, not facts. Most people think Matthew's actions were courageous and heroic. You're entitled to any opinions you want to hold, but they are not facts.

"Most people think Matthew's actions were courageous and heroic." So this is fact? Looks like opinion to me.

[Guest 2smart4u]

If John Gotti had ever disassociated himself from the mob, he could have rehabilitated himself, too, but he didn't. So your comparison is invalid.

Now do you understand that? To make a comparison, you need a parallel, and you don't have one. I know that sounds like I'm lecturing you, and I am, but that's because you make these arguments without thinking them through.

So you tell me. How did Ayres become a respected member of the community? Because he is. He was named Citizen of the Year in 1997 and is a respected college professor. Those are facts. He has lived a good life and contributed to his community. These things do happen, you know.

All you have are your biases. You are desperate to tar Barack Obama with the Bill Ayres of forty years ago when Obama was 8, and thereby somehow prove that Obama is something he is not. And when the facts don't back you up, you just ignore them. Which is why, instead of actually making a valid point against what I wrote, you just express your indignation.

Paul, even a liberal would call your views loony left. By all accounts, John Gotti killed or had killed many people. He got what he deserved, dying of cancer in prison. Rehabilitation is for drug addicts, punishment is for criminals.