ACLU loses again.

[Guest Paul]

Bern, however valid your criticisms of Obama may be, our economy is about to implode. Neocon rule must be brought to an end. We may not be able to end corporate control of everything, but if we can't eat things could get far worse than they are.

McCain very specfiically stated that he would appoint more judges like Alito and Roberts.

[WilliamK]

A fascinating response.

(For the sake of brevity, I've only quoted the intelligent portion.)

[Guest Radagast]

Incredible ! A far left liberal supporting the most liberal member of congress, go figure. Your post is total nonsense, nothing more than talking points from the Daily Kos, Huffington Post and other loony left bloggers.

It would be nice if you were a bit less predictable. I guess Little Green Footballs is your fav ...

[Guest Guest]

Incredible ! A far left liberal supporting the most liberal member of congress, go figure. Your post is total nonsense, nothing more than talking points from the Daily Kos, Huffington Post and other loony left bloggers.

Dear Stupid:

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them far left. You call everyone who doesn't agree with you far left.

You make a complete fool out of yourself when . . . oh hell, you do that every time you post.

You make an exceptionally complete fool out of yourself, even for you, when you call Obama the most liberal member of Congress (and yes, it is capitalized). Obama just happens to be the one running for president. On any other day, you'd be calling Ted Kennedy the most liberal member of Congress, like you've been doing for forty years, never mind that Bernie Sanders the socialist is in Congress too. In fact, he is now a Senator. All you're telling us here is that we can't trust anything that comes from you. We already knew that, so there's no need for you to keep reminding us of the fact.

There's also no need to remind us of the fact that Limbaugh ditto-heads like you don't have any thoughts of their own. That's why you keep repeating the same stupid phrases over and over, and not saying anything. It's all you know how to do.

Now here's the really important part. If someone's post is total nonsense, say why. That way, if you do that, you might actually give them some information that would help them think about your point of view. You might actually convince someone - that is, iif you actually had any information to offer. This way, all you're doing is showing us what a complete moron you are.

[Guest Keith]

Incredible ! A far left liberal supporting the most liberal member of congress, go figure. Your post is total nonsense, nothing more than talking points from the Daily Kos, Huffington Post and other loony left bloggers.

When you belch, does it smell like Rush Limbaugh's ass?

[Bern]

Bern, however valid your criticisms of Obama may be, our economy is about to implode. Neocon rule must be brought to an end. We may not be able to end corporate control of everything, but if we can't eat things could get far worse than they are.

McCain very specfiically stated that he would appoint more judges like Alito and Roberts.

I agree about the 'benefits' Neocon's have imposed upon us and our economic implosion (also thanks a lot to the irresponsible Neocons). The Telecom issue was due to corporate pressure.

I wouldn't like to see more judges like Alito or Roberts. I'm not living in or hoping for the 19th century.

But I wouldn't get my hopes too high on any politician. We are often promised change for the better and often they disappoint us.

[Bern]

Especially since he's still opposed to telecom immunity and has vowed to try to strip that provision.

This highlights a fundamental problem with flip-flop accusations, especially as they pertain to a lawmaker's voting history. The problem is riders. Many pork-barrel or special interest provisions that would never survive a vote on their own are pushed through Congress by attaching them to more sensible legislation, thus effectively holding the main bill hostage with the ransom being the passage of the unwanted provision. A side effect of this is that it makes it easy to prove accusations of the "Senator X said he opposes Y then voted in favor of it." form, insinuating that Senator X either lied or changed position, when in reality, Senator X never changed position, but voted as he did only because he believed the other provision(s) of the bill outweighed Y. Had he voted the other way, he might have been accused of flip-flopping on some other aspect of the bill.

I didn't realize that the bill had riders attached which forced Obama to vote yes. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

It seems to me more of a case of what the corporation want they get - especially when you're running for president. He's shown the telecoms (and other large global corporations) that he's willing to play the corporate game.

The Senate – with a yes vote from Barack Obama and a no vote from Hillary Clinton – passed the regrettable wiretapping bill today, which grants lawsuit immunity to telecommunications companies, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Despite a spirited resistance by some Democratic senators who argued against providing immunity to the phone companies, in the end the bill carried easily in a 69-28 vote.

Earlier Wednesday, lawmakers had defeated an attempt by Democratic senators to remove the legal immunity language from the legislation. That amendment only needed 50 votes to carry, but its proponents, which include most of the senior ranks of Senate Democrats, were unable to muster the requisite support.

Obama issued a statement saying the bill was the best resolution that lawmakers were able to reach. But with the vote so lopsided, Obama could have easily voted against the bill, confident that it would pass anyway. It comes down to a matter of politics. The political tea-readers decided that there was no political upside to being against enhanced government spying, and so a vote was cast. Pity.

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3885

The following managed to vote for removing legal immunity but not Obama

Akaka (D-HI) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Byrd (D-WV)

Cantwell (D-WA) Cardin (D-MD) Clinton (D-NY) Dodd (D-CT) Dorgan (D-ND)

Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Harkin (D-IA) Kerry (D-MA) Klobuchar (D-MN) Lautenberg (D-NJ)

Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Menendez (D-NJ) Murray (D-WA) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV)

Sanders (I-VT) Schumer (D-NY) Stabenow (D-MI) Tester (D-MT) Wyden (D-OR)

[Guest Patriot]

Bern, however valid your criticisms of Obama may be, our economy is about to implode. Neocon rule must be brought to an end. We may not be able to end corporate control of everything, but if we can't eat things could get far worse than they are.

McCain very specfiically stated that he would appoint more judges like Alito and Roberts.

Alito and Roberts happen to be exceptional justices. Our economic problems are being caused by high oil prices, and our democratic congress won't approve off-shore drilling or drilling in Anwar. But don't let the facts get in the way, let's just say "Bush did it".

[Guest Guest]

Alito and Roberts happen to be exceptional justices. Our economic problems are being caused by high oil prices, and our democratic congress won't approve off-shore drilling or drilling in Anwar. But don't let the facts get in the way, let's just say "Bush did it".

The facts are:

- that our economic problems are also being caused by excessive speculation resulting from Bush's deregulation policies;

- that most of the oil reserves available to the oil companies aren't being used;

- that the United States can't drill itself out of this crisis with only 3% of the world's oil reserves;

- that changing the law on offshore drilling now won't make the slightest difference to our economy for many years, if ever;

- that Bush's deregulation has brought our economy to its knees;

- that the middle class is going to pay higher taxes to bail out the mortgage companies because of Bush's deregulation;

- that the middle class is going to pay higher taxes to bail out many other companies that will otherwise fail because of Bush's economic depression;

- that China has been emerging for the past several years as an economic power while Bush did nothing about it;

- that Bush inherited a surplus and quickly turned it into a deficit; that Bush has repeated broken the law in the name of national security;

- that Alito and Roberts are exceptional justices only in the sense that they predictably vote the neocon line;

- that Bush sought and has presided over a massive redistribution of wealth toward the super-rich and against everyone else

- that George W. Bush doesn't give a damn about anyone outside his economic class.

[Guest Guest]

Alito and Roberts happen to be exceptional justices. Our economic problems are being caused by high oil prices, and our democratic congress won't approve off-shore drilling or drilling in Anwar. But don't let the facts get in the way, let's just say "Bush did it".

And what caused the high oil prices again?

[Bern]

Alito and Roberts happen to be exceptional justices. Our economic problems are being caused by high oil prices, and our democratic congress won't approve off-shore drilling or drilling in Anwar. But don't let the facts get in the way, let's just say "Bush did it".

We do create many of our own problems by our lack of focus and courage. We used to be a can do nation. We are now a let us do a study nation.

We have the highest per capita use of oil in the world, yet we refuse to use our own resources. This NIMBY attitude is greedy and selfish. Don't use our own resources but use up the rest of the world.

We even have resistance putting in non-polluting wind towers farms because some think they're ugly and its possible some birds may be hurt. Forget all the birds hurt by our belching polluting power plants.

We burn oil and high pollution coal to generate electricity. What a waste, burning oil, a non-renewable resource, when there is no need. Bush wants nuclear power and I agree with him. Other countries have lessened their dependence on oil by going nuclear yet we have politicians still opposing it. The French use nuclear to generate 80% of their electricity and they actually export their electricity to Italy.

[Guest Guest]

Alito and Roberts happen to be exceptional justices. Our economic problems are being caused by high oil prices, and our democratic congress won't approve off-shore drilling or drilling in Anwar. But don't let the facts get in the way, let's just say "Bush did it".

And WHAT makes you think drilling ANYWHERE will lower oil prices?

There IS NO SHORTAGE!

Are you really stupid enough the oil companies, out of the goodness of their hearts, are going to sell oil obtained on PUBLIC LAND to the public at low prices when they can turn around and sell the same oil to India/China at inflated market prices?

[Bern]

And WHAT makes you think drilling ANYWHERE will lower oil prices?

There IS NO SHORTAGE!

Are you really stupid enough the oil companies, out of the goodness of their hearts, are going to sell oil obtained on PUBLIC LAND to the public at low prices when they can turn around and sell the same oil to India/China at inflated market prices?

I agree there is no shortage. I've always found it ridiculous and opportunistic that the minute bad news comes from the Middle East oil and gasoline prices instantly go up even though the fuel has long left the Middle East.

I would think everyone would know that domestic oil will not be sold to the public at subsidized low prices. Capitalism will not allow that - we're not Venezuela. Market prices will prevail.

But what is better? For us to buy foreign oil thereby increasing our foreign deficit and devaluing the dollar more or selling our domestic and getting some of our dollars back?

Realistically, our domestic oil will not be sold. We have too much need and we are willing to pay market price to use it. Using domestic oil will reduce our purchase of foreign oil, reduce our dollar outflow, help stabilize the dollar and may reduce market price a little.

[Guest Patriot]

We do create many of our own problems by our lack of focus and courage. We used to be a can do nation. We are now a let us do a study nation.

We have the highest per capita use of oil in the world, yet we refuse to use our own resources. This NIMBY attitude is greedy and selfish. Don't use our own resources but use up the rest of the world.

We even have resistance putting in non-polluting wind towers farms because some think they're ugly and its possible some birds may be hurt. Forget all the birds hurt by our belching polluting power plants.

We burn oil and high pollution coal to generate electricity. What a waste, burning oil, a non-renewable resource, when there is no need. Bush wants nuclear power and I agree with him. Other countries have lessened their dependence on oil by going nuclear yet we have politicians still opposing it. The French use nuclear to generate 80% of their electricity and they actually export their electricity to Italy.

Bush wanted to start building nuclear plants 8 years ago but couildn't get support from the senate. The Dems have historically been against nuclear power while as you say, France leads the world in pollution-free nuclear energy. The Dems are also guilty of Nimbyism when it comes to wind energy, just lately Sen. Ted Kennedy shot down the proposal to build wind turbines on Cape Cod (he didn't liked the way they looked ). McCain wants to build nuclear plants while Obama dreams about solar energy powering everything (which experts have said is unrealistic). But hey, so what, Obama has a nice jump-shot.

[Guest Guest]

The facts are:

- that our economic problems are also being caused by excessive speculation resulting from Bush's deregulation policies;

- that most of the oil reserves available to the oil companies aren't being used;

- that the United States can't drill itself out of this crisis with only 3% of the world's oil reserves;

- that changing the law on offshore drilling now won't make the slightest difference to our economy for many years, if ever;

- that Bush's deregulation has brought our economy to its knees;

- that the middle class is going to pay higher taxes to bail out the mortgage companies because of Bush's deregulation;

- that the middle class is going to pay higher taxes to bail out many other companies that will otherwise fail because of Bush's economic depression;

- that China has been emerging for the past several years as an economic power while Bush did nothing about it;

- that Bush inherited a surplus and quickly turned it into a deficit; that Bush has repeated broken the law in the name of national security;

- that Alito and Roberts are exceptional justices only in the sense that they predictably vote the neocon line;

- that Bush sought and has presided over a massive redistribution of wealth toward the super-rich and against everyone else

- that George W. Bush doesn't give a damn about anyone outside his economic class.

You have just entered the Kool-Aid Zone.

[Guest 2smart4u]

And WHAT makes you think drilling ANYWHERE will lower oil prices?

There IS NO SHORTAGE!

Are you really stupid enough the oil companies, out of the goodness of their hearts, are going to sell oil obtained on PUBLIC LAND to the public at low prices when they can turn around and sell the same oil to India/China at inflated market prices?

Kool-Aid alert !

[Guest Guest]

And what caused the high oil prices again?

The democrats refusal to build nuclear plants.

[Guest Guest]

The democrats refusal to build nuclear plants.

lol, and how many nuclear plants did Bush and his Republican Congress build during all those years they had the majority?

Oh, that's right, zero.

Idiot.

[Guest Guest]

Kool-Aid alert !

Anytime you see this, it's code for "you're right; I have no rebuttal". 2dim just doesn't have the vocabulary level nor the integrity to say it that way.

[WilliamK]

...while Obama dreams about solar energy powering everything...

Liar.

Obama's energy plan is broad based, and includes low-emissions coal, biofuels, solar, wind, and nuclear.

[WilliamK]

I didn't realize that the bill had riders attached which forced Obama to vote yes. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

He certainly wasn't forced. Did I suggest force? It's just a matter of weighing the positive provisions against the negative.

I don't agree with his decision on this. I do not think that the good outweighed the bad. It is, in fact, the single biggest disappointment from him as far as I'm concerned. It is also a break of his earlier promise to filibuster any bill that included telecom immunity. But that doesn't change the fact that there's a difference between a compromise and a flip-flop. Agree with it or not, this was a compromise, not a reversal of position.

[Guest Guest]

Kool-Aid alert !

Says the WANKER 2DUMB4WORDS who STILL has NOTHING constructive and/or factual to say and offers NOTHING to refute what he whines his little minded ASININE "Kool-Aid alert" about.

[Guest Guest]

Says the WANKER 2DUMB4WORDS who STILL has NOTHING constructive and/or factual to say and offers NOTHING to refute what he whines his little minded ASININE "Kool-Aid alert" about.

When a post is so stupid as to not justify a thoughtful response, "Kool-Aid alert" may be appropriate. In this particular instance I agree with 2smart4u.

[Guest Guest]

When a post is so stupid as to not justify a thoughtful response, "Kool-Aid alert" may be appropriate.

In other words, it's never appropriate when 2dim says it.

[Guest Guest]

When a post is so stupid as to not justify a thoughtful response, "Kool-Aid alert" may be appropriate. In this particular instance I agree with 2smart4u.

Well, then you're just another WANKER, prone ASININE remarks about things you apparently are unable to comprehend.