Evolution

[Guest Not Pagan, also not stupid]

There's no such thing as "practicing paganism".

Uh, yes, there is. Paganism is technically any belief system outside of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam:

http://www.onelook.com/?w=paganism

Most commonly, it refers

That's like saying I practice Halloween or I practice getting high.

No, but keep trying. Here, I'll help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism#Grou...onsidered_Pagan

[Guest Guest]

(1) There's no such thing as "practicing paganism". (2) That's like saying I practice Halloween or I practice getting high.

(1) Yes there is, and (2) no it isn't. You don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re wrong. Pagans practice their religion, just like Catholics and Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims and Christians practice theirs.

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Paganism-Adva...2450&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Paganism-Introductio...2450&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Book-Days-Fest...2450&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Wiccan-Beliefs-Pract...2787&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Paganism-Reader-Chas...2787&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Egyptian-Paganism-Be...2787&sr=1-7

http://paganinstitute.org/cuups_forum3/vie...da269060e44b3e4

http://www.diversitas.org/db/x.php?dbcode=...amp;id=13107170

http://media.www.signal-online.net/media/s...us-962514.shtml

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...JPhN&show=7

Honestly, did you read anything about Paganism before making that ridiculous remark?

Do you even care that you made a claim about a religion you obviously know nothing about?

Does it bother you at all that you’re dismissing someone else’s religion from complete ignorance?

Has it ever occurred to you that when you do that, you’re being a jerk?

What has happened in our culture that people are proud of being ignorant?

[Guest 2smart4u]

(1) Yes there is, and (2) no it isn't. You don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re wrong. Pagans practice their religion, just like Catholics and Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims and Christians practice theirs.

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Paganism-Adva...2450&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Paganism-Introductio...2450&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Book-Days-Fest...2450&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Wiccan-Beliefs-Pract...2787&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Paganism-Reader-Chas...2787&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.com/Egyptian-Paganism-Be...2787&sr=1-7

http://paganinstitute.org/cuups_forum3/vie...da269060e44b3e4

http://www.diversitas.org/db/x.php?dbcode=...amp;id=13107170

http://media.www.signal-online.net/media/s...us-962514.shtml

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...JPhN&show=7

Honestly, did you read anything about Paganism before making that ridiculous remark?

Do you even care that you made a claim about a religion you obviously know nothing about?

Does it bother you at all that you’re dismissing someone else’s religion from complete ignorance?

Has it ever occurred to you that when you do that, you’re being a jerk?

What has happened in our culture that people are proud of being ignorant?

Paganism is a joke. It's a pseudo-religion of druggies that have taken one too many hits of acid and fried their brains.

[Guest Keith]

Paganism is a joke. It's a pseudo-religion of druggies that have taken one too many hits of acid and fried their brains.

All religions are a joke and anyone of them are about as plausible as a Harry Potter novel. By all means let's all keep killing each other in the name of it.

Does your level of idiocy know no bounds?

[Guest Captain Obvious]

Paganism is a joke.

You have no place criticizing any other religion, with how ridiculous yours is.

At least Paganism tends to focus on things that actually exist, unlike Christianity.

[Guest TheoryCat]

Paganism is a joke. It's a pseudo-religion of druggies that have taken one too many hits of acid and fried their brains.

My parents aren't druggies, thank you very much. Their religion makes as much sense as yours does.

So there's yet another group of Americans 2smart4u hates. Perhaps he should go join bin Laden.

[Guest Guest]

You have no place criticizing any other religion, with how ridiculous yours is.

At least Paganism tends to focus on things that actually exist, unlike Christianity.

"things that actually exist" ? Name me a couple.

[Guest Guest]

"things that actually exist" ? Name me a couple.

I only need to name one big one--nature.

[Guest 2smart4u]

"things that actually exist" ? Name me a couple.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a response to that.

[Guest Paul]

Thanks Paul,

Very informative and interesting.

Not one denier had the guts or the integrity to take this on, or to admit that they're wrong.

[Guest Guest]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a response to that.

Said the fool AFTER it was responded to already.

Imbecile.

[Guest Guest]

Not one denier had the guts or the integrity to take this on, or to admit that they're wrong.

They can't take it on because they're wrong.

They can't admit they're wrong because they don't think that way. They've been trained in faith-based thinking, not fact-based thinking. IOW, they've been trained to think that if they believe it, it's true. You can't talk with them and you certainly can't reason with them - as we've seen.

[Guest Guest]

I only need to name one big one--nature.

Oh, I get it. Pagans worship Mother Nature. So I guess you go out and hug trees and stuff (watch the poison ivy).

[Guest Guest]

Oh, I get it. Pagans worship Mother Nature. So I guess you go out and hug trees and stuff (watch the poison ivy).

That's an ignorant attitude. Nature is everything. Whatever is not nature is not real.

People who worship nature worship what is real. It's a wonderful attitude. Worship what is, not what isn't.

[Guest Guest]

Oh, I get it. Pagans worship Mother Nature.

Only in the abstract. Don't try and project the 'invisible person' of Christianity onto pagans--they tend to focus on nature itself, which makes a lot more sense. At least there's evidence for the existence of nature.

[Guest Guest]

Oh, I get it. Pagans worship Mother Nature. So I guess you go out and hug trees and stuff (watch the poison ivy).

Be careful of the Jolly Green Giant, I heard he hates Pagans. LOL

[Guest Guest]

Here, in brief form, is a summary of the overwhelming case for evolution.

1. The fossil record proves evolution. If you visit the fourth floor of the American Museum of Natural History at 79th Street and Central Park West in Manhattan, you will see one of the best teaching exhibits in the world. Paleontologists have identified how seemingly minor changes, in a bone in the inner ear or the mobility of the ankle joint - to cite only two examples - conveyed survival advantages, which led to the evolution of new species. As we trace the evolutionary record through fossils, not one piece is out of place.

2. Dating of fossils proves evolution. We do not just have fossils. We have dating methods that tell us how old they are. Every time scientists discover another fossil and date it, they give anyone who doubts the reality of evolution another opportunity to find an example that would prove the theory wrong. If, for example, scientists found human remains that pre-dated any other vertebrate, according to the dating methods, such a discovery would throw evolutionary theory or the science of dating physical objects into complete chaos. In science, this is called falsifiability. The theory makes predictions, and has been tested millions of times. Not once, in all those millions of times, has a fossil been dated in a way that contradicts evolutionary theory. On the contrary, all the dating verifies the functional story we see by looking at the fossil record in gross observation.

3. The genetic record proves evolution. Evolutionary theory leapt ahead by light years with the development of microbiology. We can trace the development of species through DNA, RNA, genes and chromosomes. As with the dating of fossils, a break in the pattern would disprove the theory, but yet again, after millions of genetic samples have been taken, evolutionary theory has a perfect record of verification. Anyone who doubts evolutionary theory should understand the enormous amount of information we now have, and the number of tests, any one of which could have proved the theory false. Just the opposite, all the testing has proved the theory true.

4. Evolution has been replicated. A common canard among those who would dispute evolutionary theory is that no one ever saw a monkey turn into a human. Of course not. Even if humans had descended from monkeys (we have a common ancestor), it doesn’t happen that way. Evolution occurs over many generations. We cannot see evolution happening among complex species like our own because a single generation takes at least fifteen years or so to occur. However, the same evolutionary principle applies to simpler species, and among those, scientists have replicated evolution in the laboratory. The most famous example is the drosophila fruit fly, which is commonly used for research. There are others, and as the science continues to advance, there will be more.

5. Evolutionary theory is so reliable that we use it in practical applications in two of our most important fields of science: biology and its cousin discipline medicine. As a result, life expectancies in the developed world have increased by more than a decade in recent years. Much of this is due to advances in medicine and biology as a direct result of evolutionary theory.

6. Evolutionary theory is the organizing principle for modern biology. That is how important it is. It is the principle that brings together all of biology, to such an extent that biologists are virtually unanimous in saying that modern biology cannot be understood without evolution; or to put it another way, biologists could still do some biology without evolution, but they could not understand it. Because evolutionary theory advances understanding, exponentially, beyond what would be possible without it, most biologists and most scholars of intellectual history say that it is among the greatest discoveries in history. Many say it is the greatest and most important of all, because it profoundly alters what we know about ourselves. Perhaps that is why some people oppose it so vehemently.

7. Evolutionary theory applies to all organic and quasi-organic systems. Every dynamic system that survives by reproduction in any form operates on the evolutionary principle. For example, social interactions are governed by evolutionary principles. All other things being equal, if an aspect of human behavior conveys a disadvantage, it will tend to disappear from the population; if it conveys an advantage, it will tend to spread. That is why political candidates pander and lie, why news media spoon-feed us entertainment instead of presenting real news and why religions tend to offer comforting stories: We reward them for it, and as a result those behaviors thrive and “reproduce.” An entire discipline, called game theory, has been developed from this understanding, has attracted some of the most brilliant minds in the world, and has been applied to everything from simple children’s games to business transactions to arms negotiations.

8. As our fund of knowledge increases, verification of evolutionary theory becomes progressively stronger. Because it makes accurate predictions, evolutionary theory has opened entire disciplines, and brought others from a barely coherent infancy into the realm of genuine science.

9. If we discarded what we have learned from evolutionary theory, our modern standard of living would not be possible. People who argue against evolution simply do not understand it. They assume that we would enjoy the advantages of modern life without it, but the truth is, we would not. No doubt, some of evolution’s critics have benefited from medical advances that evolutionary theory made possible. Fortunately for them, we do not withhold medical care from those who say they reject the very things that made it possible, but if we did, opposition to evolutionary theory would collapse very quickly.

I have used the word theory several times. Most people do not understand what the word means, so they say things like “that’s just a theory, it can’t be proved.” A theory can be proved. A theory may also be a fact. Evolutionary theory is both. It is a proven fact. A “theory” is an organized explanation for a set of phenomena, based on evidence and reason. Newton’s theory of gravity is a theory. If you have read the above with a misunderstanding of what a theory is, I can only invite you to read again with the proper definition in mind.

No doubt we will see the usual litany of smart-aleck remarks and non-responses from those who do not wish to know the truth if it conflicts with what they wish to believe. I can only invite them to have some courage, take a deep breath, read, think and evaluate. It's not going to go away just because you refuse to believe it.

And whether you accept it or not, it is very important to the kind of life we have chosen to live together. Think about how we are bound together socially whether we like it or not. This isn’t possible without evolution.

This is a lengthy exposition for a forum like this, but it barely scratches the surface of this vast and exciting subject. I invite anyone who doubts the truth of evolutionary theory to get out of their comfort zones long enough to study it – not what its most ignorant detractors write about it, but what its practitioners have written about it. Let them read books by Mayr, Gould, Eldridge, and dozens of others. Then let them re-evaluate their views. If they study with an open mind and a modicum of intelligence, they will embrace one of the most well-established and useful principles in all of science.

Very informative, and important.

[Guest MegranFuyis]

i newbie plz how us the baton "add me"?

[Guest Guest]

That's an ignorant attitude. Nature is everything. Whatever is not nature is not real.

People who worship nature worship what is real. It's a wonderful attitude. Worship what is, not what isn't.

We don't worship nature.