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Kearny Terrorist Targer


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We've got men guarding us with guns on the wall shooting out, shooting in and shooting into the air just for the hell of it, too cool!! Hell, we've even got men with guns on airplanes now so's we can blow the fuselage apart at the first sign of terrorists! We'll sure show them!

We've got a MAD COWboy for president who cares more about stuffing his friends pockets with our tax dollars both here and in Iraq than he does about protecting our kids both here and in Iraq. Bush's idea of protecting Kearny or anywhere else in the USA is to throw up an Orange Flag and to scurry everyone around in mock emergency drills every holiday. We block off streets to vulnerable targets for Orange Alert we unblock them for Yellow Alert....DUH!! Maybe they're smart enough to wait till our guard is down....ya think?

Many terrible emotions rattled through us all on 9/11/01. Too many of us have not shaken the worst of them, paranoia. As Americans, it has driven us to lash out furiously at friend and foe alike. We talk tough and beat up two bit tinhorn dictators as if that will somehow protect us. We are allowing our government to take away our rights and our privacy while not contributing one bit to our safety. Bush has used 9/11 as an excuse for just about everything. I'm not saying we shouldn't be more carful. I'm saying that some of what we are doing doesn't make any sense.

It's time that we woke up and realized that we never could and never will be able to protect ourselves completely from crazy people who hate us and want to kill us. The only comfort we can take is that there aren't that many of crazy people per capita.

bravo..pube

hippy

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Doesn't sound like Pube's writings.

It's time that we woke up and realized that we never could and never will be able to protect ourselves completely from crazy people who hate us and want to kill us. The only comfort we can take is that there aren't that many of crazy people per capita.

I agree. I believe that a truly determined person (and by this I mean, doesn't care what the occurs to them as long as their plan is executed.) is a great danger, that they are.

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Guest StudiesandObservations
We've got men guarding us with guns on the wall shooting out, shooting in and shooting into the air just for the hell of it, too cool!! Hell, we've even got men with guns on airplanes now so's we can blow the fuselage apart at the first sign of terrorists! We'll sure show them!

We've got a MAD COWboy for president who cares more about stuffing his friends pockets with our tax dollars both here and in Iraq than he does about protecting our kids both here and in Iraq. Bush's idea of protecting Kearny or anywhere else in the USA is to throw up an Orange Flag and to scurry everyone around in mock emergency drills every holiday.  We block off streets to vulnerable targets for Orange Alert we unblock them for Yellow Alert....DUH!! Maybe they're smart enough to wait till our guard is down....ya think?

Many terrible emotions rattled through us all on 9/11/01. Too many of us have not shaken the worst of them, paranoia. As Americans, it has driven us to lash out furiously at friend and foe alike. We talk tough and beat up two bit tinhorn dictators as if that will somehow protect us. We are allowing our government to take away our rights and our privacy while not contributing one bit to our safety. Bush has used 9/11 as an excuse for just about everything. I'm not saying we shouldn't be more carful. I'm saying that some of what we are doing doesn't make any sense.

It's time that we woke up and realized that we never could and never will be able to protect ourselves completely from crazy people who hate us and want to kill us. The only comfort we can take is that there aren't that many of crazy people per capita.

bravo..pube

hippy

Radagast wrote:We've got men guarding us with guns on the wall shooting out, shooting in and shooting into the air just for the hell of it, too cool!! Hell, we've even got men with guns on airplanes now so's we can blow the fuselage apart at the first sign of terrorists! We'll sure show them!

Shooting just for the hell of it?? Please list the times and dates this has occured. As far as the Air Marshalls, Sorry Rad you watch too much TV, A bullet through the side of the fusellage will NOT make the plane blow up, and automatically crash, nevermind the fact that the ammunition carried by Air Marshals is specifically designed NOT to over-penetrate to damage the aircraft if it is necessary to make use of their sidearms. Just as a note, El Al has had armed marshals on EVERY flight for years, and they've never had a problem since.

Almost 9 days ago I asked what people thought were some suggestions to make the area around South Kearny More secure... As usual i see criticism, and hyperbole, but no actual suggestions from you. Is the color system perfect?? of course not, so YOU tell me what would work better????

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Guest StudiesandObservations
I personally can't think of anything that could work.

Exactly, there is NO one answer. To have 100% Security we would have to give up the very thing that makes our Country and Society what it is. So, we make do with what we can. In this case that means allowing the various intelligence services to do their jobs, and ramping up the alert system when there seems to be credible threat activity. One thing to remember that since 9-11 there have been NO terrorist attacks in the US, Only abroad. That tells me that we're doing something right.

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One thing to remember that since 9-11 there have been NO terrorist attacks in the US, Only abroad. That tells me that we're doing something right.

I don't know to what extent that hold true. Before 9-11 there weren't any terrorist attacks on the US. Everybody thought that the government was doing something right. Then 9-11 occurs. Just because terrorist attacks haven't been committed on the US, doesn't mean that we they are doing something right.

I have to admit that they are doing a whole lot better.

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senesi, you say there weren't ay attacks b4 911. Gee, your just a wealth of knowledge, aren't you. What about the bombing in the Trade Center garage or lets see how about that guy Timothy McViegh? :ph34r:

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senesi, you say there weren't ay attacks b4 911. Gee, your just a wealth of knowledge, aren't you. What about the bombing in the Trade Center garage or lets see how about that guy Timothy McViegh?

Senesi?? Who is that?

As for the wealth of knowledge, I am, as human allowed certain mistakes. When I said there weren't any terrorist attacks before 9-11 I meant to the same catastrophic results.

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Guest RADAGAST

Ahhh Studies.... I was replying to a previous post quoting a speech from a movie that was using the 'wall' and the 'gun' in a metaphoric sense. Must you always be so literal?

I believe that John Ashcroft and his merry band of Constitution Stompers are using the 'Patriot Act' (how ironic!) to 'shoot' out the the constitutional main stays that afford us our basic rights and privacy. In my view they have used this tragedy for their own narrow purposes and I can only hope that someday they are taken to task for it.

My suggestion is as follows: Do away with the alert system all together and repeal the Patriot Act.

It's pretty obvious that our 'intelligence' in matters of terrorism isn't very good. That may be because Crazy people (since they are 'Crazy') can't be accurately predicted. Therefore, setting up a color coded alert system is no more than catagorized nonsense. The government should stop 'ramping up' (<God! That's a cool term, ain't it?) our tension level every time Osama Bin Laden farts. It's just plain dumb. When do you think we'll get a Green Alert? or how about a Red Alert? We'll never see a Green Alert so it shouldn't even be there. We will see a Red Alert if and when we have alredy been attacked. Ironicly, Red Alert will be when we are safest because the damage will have already been done.

As far as South Kearny goes, we only have so many public safety resources that can be dedicated to one site. Even with that, we can not secure it completely. The dangerous chlorene filled tank cars that supply the plant in question roll in and out of there on rails from other locations on a regular basis. Can we afford to protect them as well when that are enroute? No, we can't. Can we force every business that has dangerous gas in tanks to re-locate? No, we can't.

We live in a world that is dangerous. It is no more or less dangerous now than it was before 9/11/01 when we did not have Orange Alerts and Patriot Acts to 'protect' us. Should those in charge of protecting us follow up on tips and information that they deem credible? Of course they should! Did we need to change our way of life as Americans to allow them to do that....NO WAY!

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Guest Gettin' Older

Well said. I too find it ironic that "King" Ashcroft can, by decree, nullify due process, and still have the audacity to refer to it as the Patriot act.

I admit that we may need to rethink the way we do things, but our justice system has always (until recently) prided itself on the concept that it's better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent one be punished.

And to the mindless idiots who say

"If you haven't got anything to hide, what are you worried about?"

Say that with a German accent and see how it sounds to you.

Read a little world history, will ya?

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Guest Studiesandobservations
Well said. I too find it ironic that "King" Ashcroft can, by decree, nullify due process, and still have the audacity to refer to it as the Patriot act.

I admit that we may need to rethink the way we do things, but our justice system has always (until recently) prided itself on the concept that it's better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent one be punished.

And to the mindless idiots who say

"If you haven't got anything to hide, what are you worried about?"

Say that with a German accent and see how it sounds to you.

Read a little world history, will ya?

Have any of you actually bothered to READ the Patriot Act? All it does is allow Law Enforcement to treat Terrorism the exact same way they already treat Drug Offenses. ALL it does is make a separate class for Terrorism investigations, using the same modifications already in use for other specialty types of investigations. As far as no more Due process, you coudlnt be more incorrect. Everything has to be reviewed by a Judge just as with ANY OTHER WARRANT for wiretaps, searches, ect, in cases where there is a DEFNITE tie to terrorist organizations or National Security matters, then the modifications can go into effect, as long as the judge signs off on it. Diane Feinstien personally looked into the literally thousands of complaints her office got when the PA went into effect, and found NOTHING. Of all People dont you think Feinstien would love nothing more than to make Ashcroft, and in doing so Bush look stupid? Relax Chicken Little...the sky is still right where it belongs.

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Guest Gettin' Older
Well said.  I too find it ironic that "King" Ashcroft can, by decree, nullify due process, and still have the audacity to refer to it as the Patriot act.

I admit that we may need to rethink the way we do things, but our justice system has always (until recently) prided itself on the concept that it's better for a guilty man to go free than an innocent one be punished.

And to the mindless idiots who say

"If you haven't got anything to hide, what are you worried about?"

Say that with a German accent and see how it sounds to you.

Read a little world history, will ya?

Have any of you actually bothered to READ the Patriot Act? All it does is allow Law Enforcement to treat Terrorism the exact same way they already treat Drug Offenses. ALL it does is make a separate class for Terrorism investigations, using the same modifications already in use for other specialty types of investigations. As far as no more Due process, you coudlnt be more incorrect. Everything has to be reviewed by a Judge just as with ANY OTHER WARRANT for wiretaps, searches, ect, in cases where there is a DEFNITE tie to terrorist organizations or National Security matters, then the modifications can go into effect, as long as the judge signs off on it. Diane Feinstien personally looked into the literally thousands of complaints her office got when the PA went into effect, and found NOTHING. Of all People dont you think Feinstien would love nothing more than to make Ashcroft, and in doing so Bush look stupid? Relax Chicken Little...the sky is still right where it belongs.

First, here's where anyone can go to read the Patriot Act --

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Te...triot_bill.html

I'm not a lawyer, and like most layfolk I have difficulty deciphering many parts of this document. While there are numerous ares requiring a judge to "sign off" (which may satisfy the letter of the law, but certainly is subject to abuse), there are others that appear pretty disturbing.

A couple of them being:

Sec 358, subsec 626 is interesting to me regarding, among other things, the "FORM OF CERTIFICATION" in par (<_<

and

Sec 412, subsec 236A which seems to be the de facto coronation decree for the Attorney General.

I think Ashcroft is far from stupid, but he and many others help keep "Dubya" from looking so.

As for the way law enforcement already treats drug offenses, I'd pick a better example.

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senesi, you say there weren't ay attacks b4 911. Gee, your just a wealth of knowledge, aren't you. What about the bombing in the Trade Center garage or lets see how about that guy Timothy McViegh?

Senesi?? Who is that?

As for the wealth of knowledge, I am, as human allowed certain mistakes. When I said there weren't any terrorist attacks before 9-11 I meant to the same catastrophic results.

so you measure terrorism according to how many are killed or injured? Don't make statements if you don't know what your talking about. <_<

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so you measure terrorism according to how many are killed or injured? Don't make statements if you don't know what your talking about.

Do before you speak.

I said that there weren't any terrorist attacks before 9-11 with THE SAME CATASTROPHIC RESULTS.

And come to think about it, unfortunately some things are meassured in the number of people killed or injured. If you injure a person, you can be charged with battery or assault. If you kill them then its murder, or manslaugher. The legal system meassures things according to how many people are killed or injured.

This is not to say that they do it constantly, but it is done.

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so you measure terrorism according to how many are killed or injured? Don't make statements if you don't know what your talking about.

Do before you speak.

I said that there weren't any terrorist attacks before 9-11 with THE SAME CATASTROPHIC RESULTS.

And come to think about it, unfortunately some things are meassured in the number of people killed or injured. If you injure a person, you can be charged with battery or assault. If you kill them then its murder, or manslaugher. The legal system meassures things according to how many people are killed or injured.

This is not to say that they do it constantly, but it is done.

If the terrorist has the intent to kill ANYONE it was a CATASTROPHIC event. Now I say INTENT, Even if they don’t kill the person(s). Were not talking about someone getting mugged. Were talking about a WHOLE country being afraid to do every day things. The country would ultimately fall because of a stock market crash. The goal of a terrorist is not to kill you, but to scare you. IF 1000000000 PEOPLE ARE SCARED it’s a CATASTOPHIC EVENT!

Sensh, you just going to have bite the bullet on this one and admit your wrong...no big deal. Because there have been MANY “CATASTOPHIC” events prior to 9/11.

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Guest RADAGAST

Very well put, Dukey... it ain't what you CAN do, it's what you make most folks THINK you can do. There wasn't any nukes or poison gas on 9/11. The weapon of choice was a box cutter in the hands of a bunch of nut cases. Don't sound too high tech to me.

Ah but we will spend all of our time and most of our money trying to protect ourselves against every possible weapon.... but you'll still be able to buy a box cutter.

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Guest StudiesAnd Observations
Very well put, Dukey... it ain't what you CAN do, it's what you make most folks THINK you can do. There wasn't any nukes or poison gas on 9/11. The weapon of choice was a box cutter in the hands of a bunch of nut cases. Don't sound too high tech to me.

Ah but we will spend all of our time and most of our money trying to protect ourselves against every possible weapon.... but you'll still be able to buy a box cutter.

Sorry Rad, but you're incorrect oh Brown one. The weapon wasnt the Boxcutters per se, the weapon was the airline's own policies of Doing whatever the Hijackers said rather than take the risk of passengers getting hurt. These men werent "Nut Cases" they were dedicated people who accomplished their mission even at the cost of their own lives. These people arent crazy....they ARE however misguided, but that in no way decreases their threat. Before 9-11 noone (Except Tom Clancy) Ever thought that anyone would use a loaded Passenger Airliner as a weapon. We've subsequently learned, Now if someone stands up with a boxcutter, ect. on an airliner he'll either get shot by the air marshal, or mass mobbed by the other passengers. We as a society DO learn with time and experience. Car and truck bombs....noone thought they'd be used on American Soil..but after the Tragedy in Beirut in the 80's, Bariers to prevent a truck or car from getting too close appeared at key locations. After the first WTC bombing, no more parking was allowed under the Towers... One thing that has to be remembered is that the enemies that we are talking about today aren't "Lone Crazies", there's no Charles Whitman, or Lee Harvey Oswald. These people work within a support net, they need to be funded all of which leaves trails that can be followed. After the intel failure regarding 9-11 the intelligence community finally got its act together and started sharing information, and working rescources that had been barred from their use in the past. Now, we can follow everything from communication intercepts to money transfers. THESE are some of the tools that DHS uses to assess the threat situation, and adjust the alert level. Can The heightened alerts protect everyone? Of course not, but what they CAN do is put a little more security around the places that if attacked, could result in thousands, or millions of casualties.

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Very well put, Dukey... it ain't what you CAN do, it's what you make most folks THINK you can do. There wasn't any nukes or poison gas on 9/11. The weapon of choice was a box cutter in the hands of a bunch of nut cases. Don't sound too high tech to me.

Ah but we will spend all of our time and most of our money trying to protect ourselves against every possible weapon.... but you'll still be able to buy a box cutter.

Sorry Rad, but you're incorrect oh Brown one. The weapon wasnt the Boxcutters per se, the weapon was the airline's own policies of Doing whatever the Hijackers said rather than take the risk of passengers getting hurt. These men werent "Nut Cases" they were dedicated people who accomplished their mission even at the cost of their own lives. These people arent crazy....they ARE however misguided, but that in no way decreases their threat. Before 9-11 noone (Except Tom Clancy) Ever thought that anyone would use a loaded Passenger Airliner as a weapon. We've subsequently learned, Now if someone stands up with a boxcutter, ect. on an airliner he'll either get shot by the air marshal, or mass mobbed by the other passengers. We as a society DO learn with time and experience. Car and truck bombs....noone thought they'd be used on American Soil..but after the Tragedy in Beirut in the 80's, Bariers to prevent a truck or car from getting too close appeared at key locations. After the first WTC bombing, no more parking was allowed under the Towers... One thing that has to be remembered is that the enemies that we are talking about today aren't "Lone Crazies", there's no Charles Whitman, or Lee Harvey Oswald. These people work within a support net, they need to be funded all of which leaves trails that can be followed. After the intel failure regarding 9-11 the intelligence community finally got its act together and started sharing information, and working rescources that had been barred from their use in the past. Now, we can follow everything from communication intercepts to money transfers. THESE are some of the tools that DHS uses to assess the threat situation, and adjust the alert level. Can The heightened alerts protect everyone? Of course not, but what they CAN do is put a little more security around the places that if attacked, could result in thousands, or millions of casualties.

The NSA knew that the idea of jet liners being used as weapon could become a reality.

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