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Deputy Chief Reduction

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Guest Guest
you probably work in a group of 150 law abiding citizens try to understand that a police officers job is usually with irational people, pissed off neighbors who wait to long to do some thing about quality of life issues i e  noise, parking, fighting,plus many other issues that may at times overwelm the kearny police how ever thy all ways respond i have witnessed the person in the wrong arguing with the police officer ,,its 0nly 2 am on a sunday morning no one has work tomorrow why cant we make noise???? rediculous argument,how ever the officer kept his cool and advised if he had to return someone would be summoned. its not an easy job dealing with some of the trash on kearny streets

77718[/snapback]

What doe that have to do with having 3 Deputy Captains that all work the same shift?

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Guest Guest
What doe that have to do with having 3 Deputy Captains that all work the same shift?

77767[/snapback]

It's not the Deputy Chief's that has some people angry, it's the cap the mayor and council placed on patrol personnel. Putting a cap on patrol severely limits the PD's ability to do their job, and will only add to overtime and create more money woe's. I just hope people remember what the mayor and council did here when they start crying that KPD is at fault for the money problems next year because of the over time the mayor and council they themselves caused.

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Can someone explain why this mayor, would lead us down the road where their is a Deputy Chief position deleted yet he continues to employ two, yes 2 Recreation Directors in a job that only needs 1? Can we please save the taxpayers money and the kids of this town some stability in their leagues and fix the disfunctional Recreation Department and not worry about the Police Department, which does a great job in keeping our citizenry safe!

76265[/snapback]

kearny police dept dose indeed do a great job ,i here said if something is not broke you should not fix it. if taxes have to be raised to support a high caliber of police officers you wont hear me complain. as the chief said there is little respect shown to police officers or in that case any authority figure,one word of caution" beware what you let citizens get away with ",many people push to try to see how far thay can go ,double parking seems minor were will it go from there,parking in the prohibited,running red lights,stop signs,hit and run?? see it only gets worse if you dont stop it in the beging,dowie get tougher ,remember only the strong survive. :)

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Guest Not following
It's not the Deputy Chief's that has some people angry, it's the cap the mayor and council placed on patrol personnel. Putting a cap on patrol severely limits the PD's ability to do their job, and will only add to overtime and create more money woe's. I just hope people remember what the mayor and council did here when they start crying that KPD is at fault for the money problems next year because of the over time the mayor and council they themselves caused.

77807[/snapback]

The total number of department members remains the same. How does the cap at the current number increase overtime?? You're just guessing unless you can point to some OT numbers. Do you know how much overtime was generated in the police department during the past year and why it was generated? Unless you base your argument on facts instead of conjecture, you're really just taking an unfair dig.

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Guest Bill

Season Greetings; In my minds eye the Town councils decision to alter the current KPD command structure to save 1 dollar US for Kearny tax payers is tantamount to treason. Sadly through the logical process of cause and effect I feel the mayor and Councils penny wise and dollar foolish decision to eliminate the third D/C position long term will cause a negitive domino effect on the streets that in it self will comprimise and degrade the public safety standards that the town resident are now a custom to. The escalating Gang activity here in Town is no joke and with this out of the loop move by management these gang bangers have gained ground with this desirous goal oriented political retalitory action. The criminal elements who transverse this Town have an innate capacity for violence and oneshould not only wonder they should worry about what unknown component will fill the void or vacum that the elimination of this unique effective command structure has left open. Ye Gods!

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Guest Whoa
Season Greetings; In my minds eye the Town councils decision to alter the current KPD command structure to save 1 dollar US for Kearny tax payers is tantamount to treason. Sadly through the logical process of cause and effect I feel the mayor and Councils penny wise and dollar foolish decision to eliminate the third D/C position long term will cause a negitive domino effect on the streets that in it self will comprimise and degrade the public safety standards that the town resident are now a custom to. The escalating Gang activity here in Town is no joke and with this out of the loop move by management these gang bangers have gained ground with this desirous goal oriented political retalitory action. The criminal elements who transverse this Town have an innate capacity for violence and oneshould not only wonder they should worry about what unknown component will fill the void or vacum that the elimination of this unique effective command structure has left open. Ye Gods!

78347[/snapback]

Huh? Explain to me again, how does 3 versus 2 deputy chiefs affect law enforcement against gang activity??? You realize you're pushing fear?

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Guest Guest
The total number of department members remains the same.  How does the cap at the current number increase overtime??  You're just guessing unless you can point to some OT numbers.  Do you know how much overtime was generated in the police department during the past year and why it was generated?  Unless you base your argument on facts instead of conjecture, you're really just taking an unfair dig.

78182[/snapback]

KPD has a minimum man power requirement for every tour, as does any other department. With a personnel cap at 82 patrolmen, with only 60 of them being on the street, due to the need to fill positions in the DB, JAB, traffic, records, chiefs office, vice, warrants, and the COP unit. Now factor that about 10 members of the department leave per year and their positions need to be filled, leaving the total man power on the street at 50. It takes over nine months to take a new recruit, put them through the academy and get them on the street. And the Mayor and Council won't hire until they are atleast 6 members below minimum, as the cost doesn't outweigh the gain. Now factor in vacation and sick time, there could be as few as 44 patrolmen available to patrol the town, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, including a 2 man team in South Kearny at all times. I would say the likely hood of over time with this set up is over whelming.

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Guest Kearny Senior
It's not the Deputy Chief's that has some people angry, it's the cap the mayor and council placed on patrol personnel. Putting a cap on patrol severely limits the PD's ability to do their job, and will only add to overtime and create more money woe's. I just hope people remember what the mayor and council did here when they start crying that KPD is at fault for the money problems next year because of the over time the mayor and council they themselves caused.

77807[/snapback]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all P.D.'s prioritize calls. So if a shift is short a man or two due to vacation or sick time, less important calls may have to wait a few minutes more. Emergency calls get top priority and are responded to immediately.

I don't see how eliminating a DC position or putting a cap on patrol is going to effect your main purpose; responding to emergency calls.

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Guest Guest
The total number of department members remains the same.  How does the cap at the current number increase overtime??  You're just guessing unless you can point to some OT numbers.  Do you know how much overtime was generated in the police department during the past year and why it was generated?  Unless you base your argument on facts instead of conjecture, you're really just taking an unfair dig.

78182[/snapback]

the pd is running shorthanded right now, there is TONS of overtime...it takes about 9 months to higher a new cop and get him on the street....the new cap makes it so , new guys can't be hired until someone retires (and is out the door, not approaching retirement)...so you can't even begin to hire a new replacement because you will be over the 82 patrolman cap...this means when 10 guys retire...Hello overtime...the D.C. spot they are getting rid of will also create a ton of overtime...D.C's dont get overtime no matter what they work....now, a captain will have to take the spot of the D.C. that they got rid of....guess what, captains get overtime, and at like 90 bucks an hour...you would think the town would care...this whole thing was political, it has nothing to do with saving the town money..anyone who thinks different is blind or doesn't know what they are talking about..

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Guest Bill
Huh?  Explain to me again, how does 3 versus 2 deputy chiefs affect law enforcement against gang activity???  You realize you're pushing fear?

78422[/snapback]

Will the D/C of Patrol take up special operations or the D/C of investigations take up this time consumming part of law enforcement called Homeland Security / Emergency management / Gang Activity. I have no affiliation with law enforcement in fact my relationship with KPD is a love - hate relationship. They love to hate me but you cant pee on my shoes and tell me its raining.

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Guest Guest
the pd is running shorthanded right now, there is TONS of overtime...it takes about 9 months to higher a new cop and get him on the street....the new cap makes it so , new guys can't be hired until someone retires (and is out the door, not approaching retirement)...so you can't even begin to hire a new replacement because you will be over the 82 patrolman cap...this means when 10 guys retire...Hello overtime...the D.C. spot they are getting rid of will also create a ton of overtime...D.C's dont get overtime no matter what they work....now, a captain will have to take the spot of the D.C. that they got rid of....guess what, captains get overtime, and at like 90 bucks an hour...you would think the town would care...this whole thing was political, it has nothing to do with saving the town money..anyone who thinks different is blind or doesn't know what they are talking about..

78458[/snapback]

Hello!!!!!

If money isn't coming out of Trenton it can only come from the tax rolls which is capped at 4% the real fight hasn't started yet its call rationalization

it can happen

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Guest In The Know
the pd is running shorthanded right now, there is TONS of overtime...it takes about 9 months to higher a new cop and get him on the street....the new cap makes it so , new guys can't be hired until someone retires (and is out the door, not approaching retirement)...so you can't even begin to hire a new replacement because you will be over the 82 patrolman cap...this means when 10 guys retire...Hello overtime...the D.C. spot they are getting rid of will also create a ton of overtime...D.C's dont get overtime no matter what they work....now, a captain will have to take the spot of the D.C. that they got rid of....guess what, captains get overtime, and at like 90 bucks an hour...you would think the town would care...this whole thing was political, it has nothing to do with saving the town money..anyone who thinks different is blind or doesn't know what they are talking about..

78458[/snapback]

Nonsense. When the DC position is eliminated, that's it, it's eliminated. There's

no need to hire a captain to replace him, the position is GONE. You do without

him, period. No overtime, no nothing.

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Guest In The Know Also
Nonsense. When the DC position is eliminated, that's it, it's eliminated. There's

  no need to hire a captain to replace him, the position is GONE. You do without

  him, period. No overtime, no nothing.

78635[/snapback]

Much overtime could be eliminated is there was "minimum manning" per shift

that was 3 men (for example) under a full shift, which means 3 men could be off on vacation or

sick time before overtime kicked in (a 4th man off would be replaced on O.T.)

I'll admit that I don't know if Kearny is utilizing a mininum manning policy, but

if they are replacing every man off on vacation or sick time with an O.T. man

then they're spending a ton of money on overtime.

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Guest No it's not
KPD has a minimum man power requirement for every tour, as does any other department. With a personnel cap at 82 patrolmen, with only 60 of them being on the street, due to the need to fill positions in the DB, JAB, traffic, records, chiefs office, vice, warrants, and the COP unit. Now factor that about 10 members of the department leave per year and their positions need to be filled, leaving the total man power on the street at 50. It takes over nine months to take a new recruit, put them through the academy and get them on the street. And the Mayor and Council won't hire until they are atleast 6 members below minimum, as the cost doesn't outweigh the gain. Now factor in vacation and sick time, there could be as few as 44 patrolmen available to patrol the town, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, including a 2 man team in South Kearny at all times.  I would say the likely hood of over time with this set up is over whelming.

78450[/snapback]

When was the last time there were more than 82 patrol officers in Kearny??

None of what you mention will drive up overtime, there reasons for EXISTING overtime.

Speaking of existing overtime, how much of it ($) is caused by patrol officers and how much of it is caused by the superior ranks?

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Guest Hillary
Will the D/C of Patrol take up special operations or the D/C of investigations take up this time consumming part of law enforcement called Homeland Security / Emergency management / Gang Activity.  I have no affiliation with law enforcement in fact my relationship with KPD is a love - hate relationship. They love to hate me but you cant pee on my shoes and tell me its raining.

78543[/snapback]

Are you saying that only D/C's can perform the tasks you cite?

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Guest Bill
Are you saying that only D/C's can perform the tasks you cite?

78781[/snapback]

No! I am saying this move was spiteful, The last time I looked there was a little thing called contemporaneous corroboration built into the D/C positions that is designed to eliminate the chance of a false conclusionary premise being put forth to the court during a prosecution that may lead to a civil tort just because the field supervisors were overburdened by the accumulation of uncontrolled criminal events transpiring in real time during any daily tour. No sense to argue backwards what's done is done. You have your view and I have mine.

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Guest Guest
When was the last time there were more than 82 patrol officers in Kearny?? 

None of what you mention will drive up overtime, there reasons for EXISTING overtime.

Speaking of existing overtime, how much of it ($) is caused by patrol officers and how much of it is caused by the superior ranks?

78780[/snapback]

The better question to ask would be when was there last time there were actually 82 patrolmen. As it stands now the department is short 7 men, 6 due to training, 1 that was never replaced. And with members of the department that are out sick, there are even less then that. Now consider the fact that because of this TO the mayor and council won't hire until at least 10 more members of the department retire, that leaves the total in patrol at 71, that is of course considering that the 6 in training will be on the street by that point. The math is simple, and the facts are there, the cap will only increase patrol overtime.

And as for Superior Officers, I believe Chief Dowie explained why their overtime was so high this past year, due to the fact that 3 Capt's were out on extended medical leave. A fact that cannot be avoided. But, taking away a DC won't improve Sup. Officers overtime. All the positions filed by DC's currently were filled by Capt's. With the Cap, no more Capt's can be made, which means a Tour Capt will have to be taken out of patrol and put else were, leaving an empty Capt stop for overtime. Nice thing about DC's is they are management, they don't make overtime. But the Mayor and Council don't tell you that do they?

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Guest Guest
Much overtime could be eliminated is there was  "minimum manning" per shift

  that was  3 men (for example) under a full shift, which means 3 men could be off on vacation or

  sick time before overtime kicked in (a 4th man off would be replaced on O.T.)

  I'll admit that I don't know if Kearny is utilizing a mininum manning policy, but

  if they are replacing every man off on vacation or sick time with an O.T. man

  then they're spending a ton of money on overtime.

78697[/snapback]

Actually, there is a minimal man power level for every shift. Overtime officers are only hired when a shift goes below those levels. I know each shift has different minimum man power levels, not sure on exact numbers though.

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Guest Fact Finder
The better question to ask would be when was there last time there were actually 82 patrolmen. As it stands now the department is short 7 men, 6 due to training, 1 that was never replaced. And with members of the department that are out sick, there are even less then that. Now consider the fact that because of this TO the mayor and council won't hire until at least 10 more members of the department retire, that leaves the total in patrol at 71, that is of course considering that the 6 in training will be on the street by that point. The math is simple, and the facts are there, the cap will only increase patrol overtime.

And as for Superior Officers, I believe Chief Dowie explained why their overtime was so high this past year, due to the fact that 3 Capt's were out on extended medical leave. A fact that cannot be avoided. But, taking away a DC won't improve Sup. Officers overtime. All the positions filed by DC's currently were filled by Capt's. With the Cap, no more Capt's can be made, which means a Tour Capt will have to be taken out of patrol and put else were, leaving an empty Capt stop for overtime. Nice thing about DC's is they are management, they don't make overtime. But the Mayor and Council don't tell you that do they?

78825[/snapback]

So what's the answer to the question, when were there more than 82 (or if it suits your purposes, exactly 82) patrol officers? Do you go back years or decades?

As to Captain overtime, I heard the Mayor say at the Council meeting that Captain overtime was actually LOWER when there was only ONE Deputy Chief four years ago. Is that true? If it is, then the number of Deputies has very little to do with Captain overtime.

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Guest Guest
So what's the answer to the question, when were there more than 82 (or if it suits your purposes, exactly 82) patrol officers?  Do you go back years or decades?

As to Captain overtime, I heard the Mayor say at the Council meeting that Captain overtime was actually LOWER when there was only ONE Deputy Chief four years ago.  Is that true?  If it is, then the number of Deputies has very little to do with Captain overtime.

78922[/snapback]

Couldn't tell you the last time, it was while leo vartan (spelling?) was still mayor when the department had over 160 personnel on. During his time as mayor it was reduced to somewhere in the 90's, crime soared. Now Santos actually put more men on the street, crime has dropped, now he wants to do the same thing as his predecessor did. I guess it was about 10 years ago or so that there were more then 82 patrolmen, but we all saw what the result in the decrease was.

And Capt overtime was about par to what it is now, only problem is, Captains make over time, DC's don't, so when i Capt had to stay to do the job of a DC, he got paid. I'm sure if you looked at the over all cost, considering raises over the last few years, that having 3 DC's was in fact more cost effective and a better management system then anything previous.

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Guest Kearny Senior
So what's the answer to the question, when were there more than 82 (or if it suits your purposes, exactly 82) patrol officers?  Do you go back years or decades?

As to Captain overtime, I heard the Mayor say at the Council meeting that Captain overtime was actually LOWER when there was only ONE Deputy Chief four years ago.  Is that true?  If it is, then the number of Deputies has very little to do with Captain overtime.

78922[/snapback]

Just a question......What would be the problem with eliminating all the

Deputy Chiefs (through retirement)? I'm sure a captain could do the job of a

D.C. Then you'd be seeing a real tax saving of about $500,000. Then,

whenever a captain is on vacation or sick, the on-duty Lt. would fill in without

having to pay overtime. (another big savings). With the money saved, more

cops on the streets could be maintained (where we need them).

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Guest Guest
Just a question......What would be the problem with eliminating all the

  Deputy Chiefs (through retirement)?  I'm sure a captain could do the job of a

  D.C.  Then you'd be seeing a real tax saving of about $500,000. Then,

  whenever a captain is on vacation or sick, the on-duty Lt. would fill in without

  having to pay overtime. (another big savings). With the money saved, more

  cops on the streets could be maintained (where we need them).

79033[/snapback]

How in the world did you come up with $500,000?? The M&C said it would save $46,000 . . . . . . eventually.

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Guest I don't agree
Couldn't tell you the last time, it was while leo vartan (spelling?) was still mayor when the department had over 160 personnel on. During his time as mayor it was reduced to somewhere in the 90's, crime soared. Now Santos actually put more men on the street, crime has dropped, now he wants to do the same thing as his predecessor did. I guess it was about 10 years ago or so that there were more then 82 patrolmen, but we all saw what the result in the decrease was.

And Capt overtime was about par to what it is now, only problem is, Captains make over time, DC's don't, so when i Capt had to stay to do the job of a DC, he got paid. I'm sure if you looked at the over all cost, considering raises over the last few years, that having 3 DC's was in fact more cost effective and a better management system then anything previous.

78959[/snapback]

Crime soared in the 1990s?? I'm a lifelonger and that's just flat out wrong. Which would mean your whole theory as to why more is better doesn't fly. Ironically, your argument would support further reductions.

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Guest Help Us In Harrison

Chief Dowie please come to Harrison - We are looking for a police chief that stands up for his officers. You in Kearny should be greatful. Chief Dowie is a great person and a cops cop. KPD will continue to prosper under his watch!

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Guest Guest
Just a question......What would be the problem with eliminating all the

  Deputy Chiefs (through retirement)?  I'm sure a captain could do the job of a

  D.C.  Then you'd be seeing a real tax saving of about $500,000. Then,

  whenever a captain is on vacation or sick, the on-duty Lt. would fill in without

  having to pay overtime. (another big savings). With the money saved, more

  cops on the streets could be maintained (where we need them).

79033[/snapback]

then you would have to hire a sgt. on overtime to fill the lt.s spot...or move the sgt. to the lt's spot and then hire a sgt. on overtime to fill the sgt's spot...there really is no way around it...

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