the perpetual excuse

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Well, get on with the impeachment, then.  I'm sure somebody in the executive branch has done something very clearly impeachable.  Since it's Bush's fault, impeach him for it.

Seriously, your argument is hilariously specious.  It's distinctly possible that the authors of the NIE wrote it as they did to deliberately undermine the president's approach to foreign policy.  By making the president responsible for actions taken within the executive branch that run contrary to the president's own policies, you'd make the actions of a CIA traitor, or that of one who illegally leaks details of a program that tracked the banking transactions of terrorists, the fault of the president regardless of his ability to alter the behavior.  That's stupid.

I can guarantee I didn't blame Clinton for bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

How's the weather in the fever swamp this time of year?

77062[/snapback]

Like the song says " the weather is here, I wish you were beautiful."

Thanks for asking.

For someone who's apparently so passionate about the truth, why is it that you so willingly lap up the lies spilled forth by our leaders. If crimes were indeed committed by the Clinton admistration, then by all means those guilty should still be rotting in federal prison. We have to start somewhere,Bryan and if you are willing to put blinders on and overlook the sheer magnitude of possible criminal offenses of this administration simply because you may have voted for them

then I guess we deserve the govt' we have. All three branches of the govt' have failed us in a way that is quite possibly irreparable. You should be outraged, we should all be outraged. Our you so engrained in you party affliation that you are willing to look the other way?

I'm sure you will respond with a litany of "there's no proof!" yada,yada,yada. Well, we may never really know the truth Bryan because the govt' has failed us. They have failed you.

If you want to give them a pass that is your right but as for myself I'll continue to call these SOB's on thier bullshit no matter who is in office.

[Bryan]

Like the song says " the weather is here, I wish you were beautiful."

Thanks for asking.

For someone who's apparently so passionate about the truth, why is it that you so willingly lap up the lies spilled forth by our leaders.

Such as?

If crimes were indeed committed by the Clinton admistration, then by all means those guilty should still be rotting in federal prison.

You mean it wouldn't be Clinton's fault? Is there a double standard at work, here?

We have to start somewhere,Bryan and if you are willing to put blinders on and overlook the sheer magnitude of possible criminal offenses of this administration simply because you may have voted for them then I guess we deserve the govt' we have.

What "blinders"? I actively ask people like you what crimes they think were committed and they typically end up making an incoherent case. I think it comes down to evaluation of the specifics when we determine who's wearing the blinders. Do you disagree?

All three branches of the govt' have failed us in a way that is quite possibly irreparable. You should be outraged, we should all be outraged. Our you so engrained in you party affliation that you are willing to look the other way?

Are there any other alternatives, like I think our system of government remains the best option despite its flaws?

I'm sure you will respond with a litany of "there's no proof!" yada,yada,yada.

Oops, maybe I'm a bit late on that one. Sorry.

There's no proof! Yada, yada, yada.

Wow. You absolutely pegged me.

Well, we may never really know the truth Bryan because the govt' has failed us. They have failed you.

If you want to give them a pass that is your right but as for myself I'll continue to call these SOB's on thier bullshit no matter who is in office.

77102[/snapback]

People who think like you are often able to turn bad government into worse government very easily.

Look before you leap.

[Bryan]

So, once again it's someone elses fault. It's never his fault.

That's the fallacy of false dilemma. Just because I don't think that absolutely every action taken by agents of the executive branch (is Bush's fault) doesn't mean that I think nothing is Bush's fault. Even though I wouldn't blame Clinton for bombing the Chinese embassy, there are probably a few things I would blame on Clinton. It's no different for Bush, with me. Maybe you do things differently.

With regards to impeaching him, why waste the time. He's gone in a little over a year anyway and besides, since he would invoke executive priveledge and has classified almost all of the domuments he can to be secret, the courts would have to sort it out.

As I've said before, he's going down as the worst President ever, so why would we want to screw that up.

How would impeaching Bush screw that up?

At-least I have the satisfaction of knowing I didn't vote for him and will leave history to you and your ilk  to rewrite.

In the Islamic Republic of America, the name "Bush" will go down in infamy.

And with regards to Viet Nam, those who served there know the truth. They don't need a history lesson.

77082[/snapback]

Some of them do. McCain served there and he knows the truth. Not everyone can put two and two together, however.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kvfBM9cPVQ

Ron Paul serves to demonstrate the latter in the video, of course.

[Guest Guest]

Well, get on with the impeachment, then.  I'm sure somebody in the executive branch has done something very clearly impeachable.  Since it's Bush's fault, impeach him for it.

Seriously, your argument is hilariously specious.  It's distinctly possible that the authors of the NIE wrote it as they did to deliberately undermine the president's approach to foreign policy.  By making the president responsible for actions taken within the executive branch that run contrary to the president's own policies, you'd make the actions of a CIA traitor, or that of one who illegally leaks details of a program that tracked the banking transactions of terrorists, the fault of the president regardless of his ability to alter the behavior.  That's stupid.

I can guarantee I didn't blame Clinton for bombing the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

How's the weather in the fever swamp this time of year?

77062[/snapback]

For starters here, no one here has the power to start impeachment proceedings, unless we have a member of Congress among us.

Truth is, this country wasn't up for impeachment of a right-wing president. We've been playing out a move to the right for approximately thirty years, and it had to run its course. We Americans tend to do that. The best we can hope is that we've learned from it and can move on to something more responsible and more reasonable than the Bush administration.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

For starters here, no one here has the power to start impeachment proceedings, unless we have a member of Congress among us.

Truth is, this country wasn't up for impeachment of a right-wing president. We've been playing out a move to the right for approximately thirty years, and it had to run its course. We Americans tend to do that. The best we can hope is that we've learned from it and can move on to something more responsible and more reasonable than the Bush administration.

77202[/snapback]

Sadly, you may be right. GW and his band of merry men will be able to skip on down the yellow brick road, no accountability, no nothing. The good news at they will continue to S**K on the taxpayer tit for the rest of thier miserable lives while enjoying a level of free healthcare the rest could only dream of. Meanwhile back at the ranch, the rest of us, our kids and thier kids etc. will get to start paying off a debt that defies even the most fertile imagination. Thanks George, thanks alot.

I can't wait to see a history book in 10 or 20 years. Given this adminstration's propensity for manipulating the facts, I'm afraid that it will require a level of faith previously reserved for books such as the bible in order to believe all the bullshit.

[Bryan]

For starters here, no one here has the power to start impeachment proceedings, unless we have a member of Congress among us.

So you buy that Bush would be responsible for the actions of absolutely anyone who is part of the executive branch up to and including high crimes and misdemeanors committed contrary to the president's wishes and instructions?

Or had you allowed your attention to wander?

Truth is, this country wasn't up for impeachment of a right-wing president. We've been playing out a move to the right for approximately thirty years, and it had to run its course. We Americans tend to do that. The best we can hope is that we've learned from it and can move on to something more responsible and more reasonable than the Bush administration.

77202[/snapback]

By the time you realize the freedom you're losing by following the Democratic Party into socialism you won't be able to do anything about it anyway. Take a look at the history of the party since FDR. But especially look at what the current crop of Democratic candidates proposes. And think about it.

[Guest Guest]

So you buy that Bush would be responsible for the actions of absolutely anyone who is part of the executive branch up to and including high crimes and misdemeanors committed contrary to the president's wishes and instructions?

Or had you allowed your attention to wander?

By the time you realize the freedom you're losing by following the Democratic Party into socialism you won't be able to do anything about it anyway.  Take a look at the history of the party since FDR.  But especially look at what the current crop of Democratic candidates proposes.  And think about it.

77348[/snapback]

The reason the New Deal was necessary is that industry and commerce have expanded in scale. Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations) wouldn't recognize modern economics. In fact, according to what he wrote, he would be as concerned about large concentrations of private wealth as about government, perhaps more because at least we get to vote for government officials. But you right-wingers want to pretend that a huge, powerful corporate infrastructure hasn't developed over the past two centuries, which is every bit as much a threat to your freedom as any government ever was. The Democratic party is if anything too beholden to those interests, which is why many people complain that there's not enough of a difference between the two parties. Our freedom has already been taken away by the global economy, but you right-wingers think we're still in the 18th century. You think about it.

[Guest Guest]

So you buy that Bush would be responsible for the actions of absolutely anyone who is part of the executive branch up to and including high crimes and misdemeanors committed contrary to the president's wishes and instructions?

Or had you allowed your attention to wander?

By the time you realize the freedom you're losing by following the Democratic Party into socialism you won't be able to do anything about it anyway.  Take a look at the history of the party since FDR.  But especially look at what the current crop of Democratic candidates proposes.  And think about it.

77348[/snapback]

Bryan, are you serious? How do you expect anyone to hold this fool accountable for anything when he either invokes executive priveledge or classifies all documents as secret.

And, if you think that you have more freedoms today, then you truly are lost.

We have lost more freedoms in the last 7 years under the guise of fighting terrorism than anything a democrat could possible imagine. We're supposed to be fitin em over there, but appently you are perfectly content in having you e-mails monitored, your phone calls routed through the NSA, the total ignorance of the FISA Court, the re-interpretation of the Geneva Convention, and more that we're not even aware of. However, the one Executive Order that should scare most people is the one where he can declare Martial Law in an ambiguous circumstance and remain in power.

And please don't try to educate me. I've already looked up this information and it's well documented with what little information we do get. Save that for the people who don't know better.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Bryan, are you serious? How do you expect anyone to hold this fool accountable for anything when he either invokes executive priveledge or classifies all documents as secret.

And, if you think that you have more freedoms today, then you truly are lost.

We have lost more freedoms in the last 7 years under the guise of fighting terrorism than anything a democrat could possible imagine. We're supposed to be fitin em over there, but appently you are perfectly content in having you e-mails monitored, your phone calls routed through the NSA, the total ignorance of the FISA Court, the re-interpretation of the Geneva Convention, and more that we're not even aware of. However, the one Executive Order that should scare most people is the one where he can declare Martial Law in an ambiguous circumstance and remain in power.

And please don't try to educate me. I've already looked up this information and it's well documented with what little information we do get. Save that for the people who don't know better.

77421[/snapback]

The right is getting screwed along with the left. The difference is that the right seems to be either a.) Oblivious to it , or b.) completely ok with it. Either way it's frightening.

[Guest Patriot]

Bryan, are you serious? How do you expect anyone to hold this fool accountable for anything when he either invokes executive priveledge or classifies all documents as secret.

And, if you think that you have more freedoms today, then you truly are lost.

We have lost more freedoms in the last 7 years under the guise of fighting terrorism than anything a democrat could possible imagine. We're supposed to be fitin em over there, but appently you are perfectly content in having you e-mails monitored, your phone calls routed through the NSA, the total ignorance of the FISA Court, the re-interpretation of the Geneva Convention, and more that we're not even aware of. However, the one Executive Order that should scare most people is the one where he can declare Martial Law in an ambiguous circumstance and remain in power.

And please don't try to educate me. I've already looked up this information and it's well documented with what little information we do get. Save that for the people who don't know better.

77421[/snapback]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

[Guest Guest]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

If you think freedom is just a state of mind, then I suppose you can say that with a straight face, especially if there isn't much of a mind to keep straight. And of course, this is "Patriot," a/k/a 2smart4u, so it's not hard to keep him amused.

On the other hand, if you think freedom is real and objective, and has to do with whether or not other people control the choices you can make, then you might want to ask whether Exxon and Halliburton and Enron, and the Murdoch media empire, et. al., have any influence over your life. Then you might want to ask how their interests differ from yours, and how that difference affects your life.

You might. If you had the brains.

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

My level of paranoia is directly porportionate to your level of ignorance.

[Guest Guest]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

You're just too damn stu[id, narrow-minded, and tunnel-visioned to kmow what you've lost.

[Guest a proud american]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

No, we the american people have lost these freedoms. Apparently you are content with losing yours but sadly, one day you're going to wake up and realize just what it is you lost.

[Guest Kearny Senior]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

This is one of the funniest yet pertinent posts I've read on KOTW. Bravo.

[Guest Guest]

My level of paranoia is directly porportionate to your level of ignorance.

77480[/snapback]

WOW! THAT level of paranoia usually requires hospitalization

[Guest Guest]

That's funny, you lost all that freedom in the last 7 years and I didn't lose any.

  How can that be, we live in the same country? Perhaps you're suffering from

  paranoia, that dreaded Kool-aid disease. (BTW......the FBI just read your

  post and they will come for you tonight, pack your bag).

77451[/snapback]

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

Goethe

[Guest Guest]

This is one of the funniest yet pertinent posts I've read on KOTW. Bravo.

77534[/snapback]

Funny? I think it's a sad display of PatRat's dementia.

[Guest Patriot]

No, we the american people have lost these freedoms. Apparently you are content with losing yours but sadly, one day you're going to wake up and realize just what it is you lost.

77518[/snapback]

Seriously, please tell me what freedoms I've lost. I'm unaware of losing

a single one. I challenge anyone to name a single freedom I've lost in the last

7 years as a previous poster has claimed. It's time for the Loony Lefties to

step up and back up your rediculous nonsense. I wait with bated breath.

[Guest Guest]

Seriously, please tell me what freedoms I've lost. I'm unaware of losing

  a single one. I challenge anyone to name a single freedom I've lost in the last

  7 years as a previous poster has claimed. It's time for the Loony Lefties to

  step up and back up your rediculous nonsense. I wait with bated breath.

77608[/snapback]

You've lost the freedom to have a private conversation over the telephone.

[Guest a proud american]

Seriously, please tell me what freedoms I've lost. I'm unaware of losing

  a single one. I challenge anyone to name a single freedom I've lost in the last

  7 years as a previous poster has claimed. It's time for the Loony Lefties to

  step up and back up your rediculous nonsense. I wait with bated breath.

77608[/snapback]

Lets talk about three.

Article IV: The rights of the people to be protected from unreasonalbe searches and seizures. These searches must be based on probable cause. Today, the Government, through the NSA searches through phone conversations, and e-mails are routed through the wireless internet providers and phone companies. Since this Article guarantees your right and hasn't been amended it is still in effect but has been ignored.

Article V: The right to due process. Once you decide to give up your rights contained in Article IV, you essentially have waived this amendment since you obviously believe you have nothing to hide and therefore don't care.

Article VI: The right to a speedy and public trial, and to be judged by a jury of your peers. Under this Administration, they can hold you indefinately, so long as you are not charged with a crime. The language is deliberately ambiguous and can be broadly interpreted to mean any thing they choose to have it mean from peaceful protest to even writing a letter criticizing the Government, so that in essence, you can be held indefinately as an enemy combatant whether you are a citizen or not. And further, they don't even have to tell your family that you've been arrested.

Now, none of this will probably interest you since you feel you have an unfettered right to speak your mind and trust this Administration to protect you, but I have listed three amendments that they are violating in the name of keeping you safe.

However, being a patriot, you should know this already but in case you don't, the Constitution was written to protect the people from abuses by the Government not the other way around. Remember it was written by the people, for the people and no one person or persons can change that regardless of the reason unless the majority decides.

If you take the time to research what I've written you will find it all true. I am not a lawyer and so am giving you an interpretatiuon as I understand it and as it's been written.

So, now you have something to ponder, however I am sure your mind is already made up. But at-least I try to educate you. Remember What Jefferseon wrote. "Those who would give up even one freedon deserve none".

[Guest Keith-Marshall,Mo]

Seriously, please tell me what freedoms I've lost. I'm unaware of losing

  a single one. I challenge anyone to name a single freedom I've lost in the last

  7 years as a previous poster has claimed. It's time for the Loony Lefties to

  step up and back up your rediculous nonsense. I wait with bated breath.

77608[/snapback]

Hmmm,...Illegal wiretapping comes to mind.

[Guest Patriot]

You've lost the freedom to have a private conversation over the telephone.

77669[/snapback]

300 million americans, probably more than a billion phone calls being made and received daily, and you think someone is listening in on all of them ?? You may

want to increase the meds.

[Guest Patriot]

Lets talk about three.

Article IV: The rights of the people to be protected from unreasonalbe searches and seizures. These searches must be based on probable cause. Today, the Government, through the NSA searches through phone conversations, and e-mails are routed through the wireless internet providers and phone companies. Since this Article guarantees your right and hasn't been amended it is still in effect but has been ignored.

Article V: The right to due process. Once you decide to give up your rights contained in Article IV, you essentially have waived this amendment since you obviously believe you have nothing to hide and therefore don't care.

Article VI: The right to a speedy and public trial, and to be judged by a jury of your peers. Under this Administration, they can hold you indefinately, so long as you are not charged with a crime. The language is deliberately ambiguous and can be broadly interpreted to mean any thing they choose to have it mean from peaceful protest to even writing a letter criticizing the Government, so that in essence, you can be held indefinately as an enemy combatant whether you are a citizen or not. And further, they don't even have to tell your family that you've been arrested.

Now, none of  this will probably interest you since you feel you have an unfettered right to speak your mind and trust this Administration to protect you, but I have listed three amendments that they are violating in the name of keeping you safe.

However, being a patriot, you should know this already but in case you don't, the Constitution was written to protect the people from abuses by the Government not the other way around. Remember it was written by the people, for the people and no one person or persons can change that regardless of the reason unless the majority decides.

If you take the time to research what I've written you will find it all true. I am not a lawyer and so am giving you an interpretatiuon as I understand it and as it's been written.

So, now you have something to ponder, however I am sure your mind is already made up. But at-least I try to educate you. Remember What Jefferseon wrote. "Those who would give up even one freedon deserve none".

77712[/snapback]

Nonsensical gibberish. Increase the meds.

[Guest Patriot]

Hmmm,...Illegal wiretapping comes to mind.

77716[/snapback]

What is that supposed to mean ?? Read the question again, Doofus.