Mayor Santos running out of excuses?

[Guest You're not fooling anyone]

Dear CPA:

The Mayor has been asking for input on the budget.  He has stated that he is surprised at the lack of public input.  As I stated in my Letter to the Editor which was published in the Observer, give us (the Kearny residents) the financial detail and we will give you (the Mayor) some ideas.  The Mayor has not rushed to put the financials on the town's website.  That speaks louder than anyone could on this forum or at a town meeting.  Since you have purported expertise in the field (municipal budgets), you could assist in finding cost savings if you had the line-item detail.  You state that "the facts don't support ... [the] criticism".  What facts?  We have no facts because the Mayor asked for input but didn't give us the details so how are we suppose to discuss the facts.  He is hiding the facts.  Why?  If you have nothing to hide, open up the books and let's see if we can stop the ever increasing property taxes.

73527[/snapback]

By law, budget and financial statements and audit are immediately available to anyone who asks the town clerk. They're also available for review at the public library. Mr. Pinho, you as an attorney know that. Mr. Pinho, you as an attorney are probably at town hall at least once a week.

Not to make light of this, but, Mr. Pinho, you can't handle the facts.

[Guest Guest]

If they are easily obtained from the town treasurer or business administrator, why aren't they published (posted) on the town's website?  The Mayor called for a discussion but I have to go and pay for copies of the documents.  Give the public the documents that the finance committee has when it looks at the budge.  It is all public information correct?

73680[/snapback]

John,

You can read it at town hall if copying is a problem.

You as a lawyer know full well what's public information.

You know what this looks like? You've come up with nothing so you're now trying to fool people into thinking the budget is not publicly available.

[Strife767]

Paul,

"open up the books" in the context of my post meant "post the information on the web so its easily available to the public".  In this internet age, if the Mayor is serious about wanting our input he should put all the town's public financial data on the town's website.

73681[/snapback]

It's on the public record; complaining that it's 'hidden' in any way is pure bullshit, frankly. What's the matter, a trip to the library too strenuous for you? Honestly, now--you're totally wrong and we all know it. I'm sure you do, too--just admit it and move on. Your credibility isn't looking any better with this semantic dance of desperation.

[Guest Paul]

John,

You can read it at town hall if copying is a problem.

You as a lawyer know full well what's public information. 

You know what this looks like?  You've come up with nothing so you're now trying to fool people into thinking the budget is not publicly available.

73779[/snapback]

I was actually prepared to say that Mr. Pinho's suggestion might be worth considering. Having it online would make access easier. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want the whole world having such ready access to that information. And of course, the remark about hiding information was misleading and inflammatory, whether intentionally or not.

However, in the interests of having a productive dialogue: Does anyone know how many pages of data would be involved?

[Guest Recall Mayor Santos]

I was actually prepared to say that Mr. Pinho's suggestion might be worth considering. Having it online would make access easier. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want the whole world having such ready access to that information. And of course, the remark about hiding information was misleading and inflammatory, whether intentionally or not.

However, in the interests of having a productive dialogue: Does anyone know how many pages of data would be involved?

73813[/snapback]

Stop this nonsense on how we obtain information, Its simple and John Pincho is right, if you have nothing to hide then post the entire finances of the Town of Kearny on the internet and lets see the whole picture of how Kearny got to this point of out of control property taxes. Simple, Stupid post the numbers. The MAYOR has the power to make this happen. P.S My guess is he won't do it.

[Bern]

I was actually prepared to say that Mr. Pinho's suggestion might be worth considering. Having it online would make access easier. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want the whole world having such ready access to that information. And of course, the remark about hiding information was misleading and inflammatory, whether intentionally or not.

However, in the interests of having a productive dialogue: Does anyone know how many pages of data would be involved?

73813[/snapback]

IMHO, that was a clever comeback by Pinho. He knew he was caught with his inflammatory and misleading statements, therefore the spin to correct that he meant online access.

And who said lawyers can't think?

How many people will really look at the Budget online? Those who are interested can easily go to the library.

Everybody is talking about cost. How much will it cost scan a copy onto the web and maintain it?

[Guest Guest]

It's on the public record; complaining that it's 'hidden' in any way is pure bullshit, frankly. What's the matter, a trip to the library too strenuous for you? Honestly, now--you're totally wrong and we all know it. I'm sure you do, too--just admit it and move on. Your credibility isn't looking any better with this semantic dance of desperation.

73795[/snapback]

So when Paul asked you to jump this time, I wonder how high you did? Probably right up to his crotch area where you usually do spend most of your time. Most dogs usually do sniff around the butts of their master.

[JohnPinho]

John,

You can read it at town hall if copying is a problem.

You as a lawyer know full well what's public information. 

You know what this looks like?  You've come up with nothing so you're now trying to fool people into thinking the budget is not publicly available.

73779[/snapback]

I know they are available but if you want to take a copy home (to look at and analyze it) you need to pay. Mayor Santos wants input from Kearny's taxpayers. He should therefore put the town's financial data on the internet so everyone can get a copy for free. There is no additional cost to the town as they have already paid for the disk space on the internet site where they host the town's website. Disk space is cheap. If the town doesn't have a copier that can scan and converts the file into PDF format, he can drop off a copy in my office and I'll scan it and get him a PDF file to post on the town's website.

As far as your comment that I "can't handle the facts", I have the following comment. Sometimes it is better to be the horse with the "blinders" on than to be the one without them. Remind me next time I get my property tax bill to put my "blinders" on so I can be as happy as you when I write out my ever increasing property tax check.

[Guest Paul]

Stop this nonsense on how we obtain information, Its simple and John Pincho is right, if you have nothing to hide then post the entire finances of the Town of Kearny on the internet and lets see the whole picture of how Kearny got to this point of out of control property taxes. Simple, Stupid post the numbers. The MAYOR has the power to make this happen. P.S My guess is he won't do it.

73963[/snapback]

You can do exactly the same thing. Go down to Town Hall, copy the information you want, and post it yourself.

[JohnPinho]

It's on the public record; complaining that it's 'hidden' in any way is pure bullshit, frankly. What's the matter, a trip to the library too strenuous for you? Honestly, now--you're totally wrong and we all know it. I'm sure you do, too--just admit it and move on. Your credibility isn't looking any better with this semantic dance of desperation.

73795[/snapback]

Strife767,

Since you appear to have knowledge of what records are public, answer the following question. Could I as a taxpayer get a copy of the town's bank statements including a copy of all the checks written by the town to pay its bills?

[Guest 2smart4u]

So when Paul asked you to jump this time, I wonder how high you did? Probably right up to his crotch area where you usually do spend most of your time. Most dogs usually do sniff around the butts of their master.

73991[/snapback]

Strife is Paul's son, otherwise known as Matthew.

[JohnPinho]

I was actually prepared to say that Mr. Pinho's suggestion might be worth considering. Having it online would make access easier. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want the whole world having such ready access to that information. And of course, the remark about hiding information was misleading and inflammatory, whether intentionally or not.

However, in the interests of having a productive dialogue: Does anyone know how many pages of data would be involved?

73813[/snapback]

Paul,

The town has an annual audit. The audit doesn't judge whether the town is wisely spending its money but it determines whether "the financial statements are free of material misstatement" and makes recommendations on ways to improve the town's accounting system. The audit generally runs around 170 pages. There are additional documents reviewed by the town's Finance committee that should also be posted on the town's website. I am not sure how many pages in total that would be. My point is that if the Mayor wants our input we should be given easy access to the documents (without paying for them) that he and the Finance Committee have to review.

[Strife767]

Stop this nonsense on how we obtain information, Its simple and John Pincho is right, if you have nothing to hide then post the entire finances of the Town of Kearny on the internet and lets see the whole picture of how Kearny got to this point of out of control property taxes. Simple, Stupid post the numbers.

They're already posted, "stupid." Go to Town Hall or the library, you lazy bum. Why do you need your hand held? This information is no secret. Then again, knowing how decisive your action on the whole 'storming the meeting' thing was(n't), it's no surprise that you're not willing to make the slightest effort to inform yourself.

[Strife767]

So when Paul asked you

I like how people like you are so scared of entertaining the thought that Paul has people who genuinely agree with him, that you have to convince yourself in your own feeble minds that I'm some sort of puppet. What a fool you are.

to jump this time, I wonder how high you did? Probably right up to his crotch area where you usually do spend most of your time. Most dogs usually do sniff around the butts of their master.

73991[/snapback]

Oh, if only I was as immature as you, I might have been offended by that. Better luck on the playground--after all, it's likely the source of this 'wit' of yours.

[Strife767]

I know they are available but if you want to take a copy home (to look at and analyze it) you need to pay.

How much? Now I'm curious to know just what kind of a financial burden it would (or wouldn't) be to get a personal copy of this information.

Mayor Santos wants input from Kearny's taxpayers.  He should therefore put the town's financial data on the internet so everyone can get a copy for free.

What a short-sighted thing to say--uploading the information onto the website and maintaining it would cost both time (and labor costs money) and money, most likely more than it would save compared to the cost of getting a personal copy run off for you. How much was that, again?

As far as your comment that I "can't handle the facts", I have the following comment.  Sometimes it is better to be the horse with the "blinders" on than to be the one without them.

In other words, your response is that sometimes ignorance is preferable. Whatever you say, man.

[Strife767]

Strife767,

Since you appear to have knowledge of what records are public,

lol, it's not exactly insider information, my friend.

answer the following question.  Could I as a taxpayer get a copy of the town's bank statements including a copy of all the checks written by the town to pay its bills?

74040[/snapback]

I have absolutely no idea. Why are you wasting time (especially considering how long posts can stew here before they actually make it onto the forum for all to see) asking me when you could go to Town Hall and ask someone who is sure to know?

[Guest Paul]

Paul,

The town has an annual audit.  The audit doesn't judge whether the town is wisely spending its money but it determines whether "the financial statements are free of material misstatement"  and makes recommendations on ways to improve the town's accounting system. The audit generally runs around 170 pages. There are additional documents reviewed by the town's Finance committee that should also be posted on the town's website. I am not sure how many pages in total that would be.  My point is that if the Mayor wants our input we should be given easy access to the documents (without paying for them) that he and the Finance Committee have to review.

74046[/snapback]

John, that's fair. Let's raise the issue to Al and the Council and see what they have to say. (Maybe there's a reason not to do it - let's find out.)

I doubt that very many people will spend the time to study all that information, but it would increase ease of access. It will mean that citizens who want to complain will have less of an excuse for not having the details pinned down. To me, that's a good thing.

As a member here, you can e-mail me, and we can discuss how to do it.

[Guest CPA]

John, that's fair. Let's raise the issue to Al and the Council and see what they have to say. (Maybe there's a reason not to do it - let's find out.)

I doubt that very many people will spend the time to study all that information, but it would increase ease of access. It will mean that citizens who want to complain will have less of an excuse for not having the details pinned down. To me, that's a good thing.

As a member here, you can e-mail me, and we can discuss how to do it.

74083[/snapback]

Reading the posts of John Pinho and the omnipresent Paul cause me to jump

into this again. Gentlemen, I know of NO municipality that posts their entire

budget on the internet. This is something that is simply not done, it's too

time consuming with no real purpose or justification. I'm certain copies are

available in town hall for anyone to peruse, and you can probably buy a copy

for a nominal fee. It seems to me, you guys are obsessed with trying to

find things about the mayor to complain about. This issue of the budget not

being available on the net is just the latest.

[Guest Truth Teller]

I know they are available but if you want to take a copy home (to look at and analyze it) you need to pay.  Mayor Santos wants input from Kearny's taxpayers.  He should therefore put the town's financial data on the internet so everyone can get a copy for free.  There is no additional cost to the town as they have already paid for the disk space on the internet site where they host the town's website.  Disk space is cheap.  If the town doesn't have a copier that can scan and converts the file into PDF format, he can drop off a copy in my office and I'll scan it and get him a PDF file to post on the town's website. 

As far as your comment that I "can't handle the facts", I have the following comment.  Sometimes it is better to be the horse with the "blinders" on than to be the one without them.  Remind me next time I get my property tax bill to put my "blinders" on so I can be as happy as you when I write out my ever increasing property tax check.

74035[/snapback]

John, you really can't handle the facts. You also don't have a single, realistic suggestion on reducing property taxes. Not a one. Only personal anti-Santos attacks -- especially after you no longer had Kearny property owners paying you a salary after the Mayor replaced you as legal counsel to the sewer authority.

[Guest Taxmaster]

Kearny's Tax Levy PIE 2000-2006

Where It Goes: A breakdown of property taxes by branch of government. It shows how much a house with the average assessment in Kearny Town pays, the share of taxes in the town that go to each branch, and the annual change in the townwide tax levy for each branch. down. 2007 breakdowns are not available yet.

Levy County School Town

2000 $1,401 $2,582 $1,566

2001 $1,283 $2,679 $1,502

2002 $1,284 $2,889 $1,527

2003 $1,321 $3,096 $1,697

2004 $1,321 $3,328 $1,882

2005 $1,310 $3,559 $1,960

2006 $1,354 $3,708 $2,340

[Guest Paul]

Reading the posts of John Pinho and the omnipresent Paul cause me to jump 

    into this again. Gentlemen, I know of NO municipality that posts their entire

    budget on the internet. This is something that is simply not done, it's too

    time consuming with no real purpose or justification. I'm certain copies are

    available in town hall for anyone to peruse, and you can probably buy a copy

    for a nominal fee. It seems to me, you guys are obsessed with trying to

    find things about the mayor to complain about. This issue of the budget not

    being available on the net is just the latest.

74193[/snapback]

Excuse me, but I've been clear from the beginning about my support for Al Santos, whom I believe to be the best mayor we've had in Kearny in the nearly 20 years I've lived here --- by far. My point is not to criticize the mayor, but to look under every stone for some means of tax reduction. My personal view is that the mayor and council have already done that, but as a citizen and taxpayer I'm open to all plausible ideas.

[Guest Guest]

I like how people like you are so scared of entertaining the thought that Paul has people who genuinely agree with him, that you have to convince yourself in your own feeble minds that I'm some sort of puppet. What a fool you are.

Oh, if only I was as immature as you, I might have been offended by that. Better luck on the playground--after all, it's likely the source of this 'wit' of yours.

74051[/snapback]

You are the one who admitted you are Paul's puppet. Shame you don't have a hump on one of your shoulders. Or do you? If only you had something more to add to this post then silly smilie faces. My wit is none of your business since this appears to be your playground I may as well just stay here a while.

[Strife767]

You are the one who admitted you are Paul's puppet.

Cite or stfu.

Shame you don't have a hump on one of your shoulders. Or do you?  If only you had something more to add to this post then silly smilie faces.  My wit is none of your business

I can tell by how you're keeping it far, far away from this forum.

What is there to add to nonsense like the above? Be glad your tripe is getting a response at all.

[JohnPinho]

John, you really can't handle the facts.  You also don't have a single, realistic suggestion on reducing property taxes.  Not a one.  Only personal anti-Santos attacks -- especially after you no longer had Kearny property owners paying you a salary after the Mayor replaced you as legal counsel to the sewer authority.

74218[/snapback]

Here is a "single, realistic suggestion on reducing property taxes": have the Water Department personnel handle the water meter reading and billing rather than pay United Water over $300,000 per year. A suggestion I made several years ago to the Mayor and council. It was rejected.

If you don't agree with the Mayor on every point you are accused of making "personal anti-Santos attacks." I have never made any personal anti-Santos comments but I have voiced my opinion on various town issues. My comments at any council meeting have never been personal. The Mayor's biggest problem is that if you don't agree with him, he stops listening even if your comment makes total sense (i.e. Kuehne Chemical Plant security).

Long before I was replaced as legal counsel to the KMUA (Kearny Municipal Utility Authority), I was voicing my opinion on various Kearny issues. The Commissioners who eventually became a majority of Santos appointments voted to replace me not because I was doing a poor job but because Santos wanted another attorney to fill the job. That is politics and I accepted my fate. He had the votes to replace me and he did.

[JohnPinho]

Reading the posts of John Pinho and the omnipresent Paul cause me to jump 

    into this again. Gentlemen, I know of NO municipality that posts their entire

    budget on the internet. This is something that is simply not done, it's too

    time consuming with no real purpose or justification. I'm certain copies are

    available in town hall for anyone to peruse, and you can probably buy a copy

    for a nominal fee. It seems to me, you guys are obsessed with trying to

    find things about the mayor to complain about. This issue of the budget not

    being available on the net is just the latest.

74193[/snapback]

The nominal fee for a copy of the audit is over $50.00 so to get all the documents the finance committee has access to is got to be over $100.00. Since the Mayor put out the challenge for us Kearny taxpayers to help him figure out ways to save on our property tax bill, he should give us the facts (audit, budget, line-items etc.) If the Mayor truly wants our input he can scan into PDF the documents and post them on the town's website. There is no cost to doing that beyond getting a secretary or staff member who is already getting paid to do it. I assure you that the town is not using all the disk space it is already paying for with its website server so posting the public financial information would be at no additional cost.