School Uniforms

[Guest Guest]

You and Paul have completely missed the point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is what in your not-so-humble opinion?

[Guest Guest]

In other words, here's what this guest is really saying:

"Dear fellow parents, my children are hell on wheels. I've spoiled them rotten, let them wear clothing I knew they shouldn't wear and never had the guts or the integrity to set limits on my own children. So now that I've screwed up parenting my own children to the point that I can't handle them, I want the rest of the parents in town to force their children to wear uniforms to cover the mistakes and failures I've made with my own children. I really wish these young people weren't competing with each other over who could dress the coolest, but since I couldn't instill those values in my own children, I'm going to force your children to wear a uniform to make up for my failures as a parent."

The people making that argument should be ashamed of themselves. And one of them is president of the Board of Education. I don't knew her personally or know her children, but she is making that argument, and she ought to have the sense to be ashamed of herself. But she doesn't.

Great. Just marvy. No wonder the Kearny school system is so screwed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Melanie,

I feel sorry for a person like you.

I do not spoil my children and I do have control of my children.

Everything that I see coming out of your mouth is more like the things you might be afraid it could happen to you maybe. You sound like a spoiled person that was pampered and got always with it everything. Grow up and stop trying to impress Paul. You might learn something.

If you are parent that have the money and can afford brand names for your children every time he or she throws a fit, so buy them, but not every parent can do that.

No one is being punished by wearing uniforms, isn’t it equality you and Paul want? There you go; in uniforms there is equality.

Clean your mouth from all the crop you are spilling out and learn something about parenting. Which by the way does not come printed in a textbook.

[Guest Guest]

There is a dress code.  Unfortunately, it can't be enforced due to the parents lack of cooperation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree 100%.

[Guest Guest]

Exactly. In fact, why don't we all just put on one-piece grey jumpsuits like they wore in China under Mao? It would solve a lot of problems.

No? So why not?

It's a nightmare that the people who are arguing for this can't hear themselves. If this is truly the land of the free, kids aren't forced to wear uniforms by their local governments. That's no way to educate young people to be responsible citizens in a free society. Just the opposite, it's a way to condition them to give up freedom altogether.

We're going to have to fight hard enough to preserve freedom as it is, with the global economy taking a lot of it away and the constant threat of terrorism pushing people to give it up. We should be fiercely defending our freedoms, not cheering as we throw them away for pretty much no reason at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Grey jumpsuits. That's quite a stretch Paul. Once again, your main problem is that you lack common sense. A stint as a prinicipal might give you some perspective on this issue.

[Guest Guest]

In other words, here's what this guest is really saying:

"Dear fellow parents, my children are hell on wheels. I've spoiled them rotten, let them wear clothing I knew they shouldn't wear and never had the guts or the integrity to set limits on my own children. So now that I've screwed up parenting my own children to the point that I can't handle them, I want the rest of the parents in town to force their children to wear uniforms to cover the mistakes and failures I've made with my own children. I really wish these young people weren't competing with each other over who could dress the coolest, but since I couldn't instill those values in my own children, I'm going to force your children to wear a uniform to make up for my failures as a parent."

The people making that argument should be ashamed of themselves. And one of them is president of the Board of Education. I don't knew her personally or know her children, but she is making that argument, and she ought to have the sense to be ashamed of herself. But she doesn't.

Great. Just marvy. No wonder the Kearny school system is so screwed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another bone head heard from. You could also benefit from some time as a principal or administrator in the school system.

[Guest Guest]

No doubt the parents who are clamoring for my kids to wear uniforms today are the same parents who couldn't tell their own kids no, or set reasonable limits when they were three. It irks me no end that some people in this town think it's my and my kids' job to pick up the slack for what they have FAILED TO DO! This is no way to teach them how to be responsible adults.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel the same, except that I think the parents that can't say NO to their kids are the same ones that don't want the uniform, they don't want to hear their kids whining about it, so they would rather let them wear whatever they want (like they've been doing). I also think that the schools have had a hard time enforcing the dress code because of these same parents. Here's a scenario: Student Jane Doe is sent home because her shirt exposes way too much of her chest ( or her pants are so low that every time she sits, three inches of butt crack is exposed), her parents complain that her "pervert" male teacher shouldn't even be looking at her chest to even notice and threaten to sue the BOE. The BOE is in a no-win situation.

I think the BOE should publish on the district web-site a strict "Dress Code" in detail, so as there is absolutely no doubt of what is appropriate and have no fear of a law suit. If a male teacher is afraid to complain about his female students clothes, because of being sued, he can point it out to any female teacher to tell the principal. They need to stick to their guns and enforce it. Give that a try before going to uniforms.

[Bern]

You stooooooopid iiiiiiiidiot.    You really are stooooopid, EH?  I get all the freedoms. I demand all personal liberties!!!!!!!  Me Me Me, I am sooooooooooo special, no?  YESSSSSSS!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you don't believe in freedom and personal liberty?

Then why are you living here? Since freedom and personal liberty is the core basis of our constitutional republic you should be miserable here.

Wouldn't you be more comfortable living in Iraq? You would be popular with the Ayatollahs (warning - conversion required). They don't believe in personal liberty and freedom either. They do believe in uniform attire. They have special police that goes around and makes sure people meet a minimum uniform appearance standard (especially women).

Their beliefs with limits on freedom derive from their good book, the Koran.

An incisive and deeply philosophical comment on freedom and liberty from the anonymous guest brigade.

[Bern]

The people making that argument should be ashamed of themselves. And one of them is president of the Board of Education. I don't knew her personally or know her children, but she is making that argument, and she ought to have the sense to be ashamed of herself. But she doesn't.

Great. Just marvy. No wonder the Kearny school system is so screwed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

The honorable president of the Board of Ed should put in a resolution that Bd of Ed members wear uniforms at their meetings and when performing in their official capacity.

The school community is not just students, it is students, teachers, administrators and support staff. So while she'd at it, I suggest that a resolution be passed to require uniforms for all.

Everyone is in the team.

[Guest Guest]

Well, it's obvious what your stance is, but how about explaining it instead of just saying "you won't like" it? It would help to know why you feel the way you do, and especially (as far as I'm concerned, at least) why you would prefer that over the dress code we currently have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, my reason for saying "you won't like my opinion" is I was responding to what I thought was a "student", uniforms are not a popular topic with high school students, that why. My choice for uniforms over the current dress code is I've yet to see a dress code inforced.

[Guest Paul]

I certainly agree with Paul on this one.  If I wanted my child in a uniform I would have sent them to a Catholic High School.  I VOTE NO to uniforms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Give me a call, and let's fight it. We're in the book.

[Guest Paul]

Melanie,

I feel sorry for a person like you.

I do not spoil my children and I do have control of my children.

Everything that I see coming out of your mouth is more like the things you might be afraid it could happen to you maybe. You sound like a spoiled person that was pampered and got always with it everything. Grow up and stop trying to impress Paul. You might learn something.

If you are parent that have the money and can afford brand names for your children every time he or she throws a fit, so buy them, but not every parent can do that.

No one is being punished by wearing uniforms, isn’t it equality you and Paul want? There you go; in uniforms there is equality.

Clean your mouth from all the crop you are spilling out and learn something about parenting. Which by the way does not come printed in a textbook.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't know anything about Melanie. I do. None of your little imaginings are true. You made it all up. Where do you people get off making up things about people you don't even know?

If you have control of your children, then they should understand that you can't afford to buy them brand name clothing. So what's the problem?

It's kind of interesting that I'm often accused of being a leftist. If I was a radical leftist-egalitarian, I would probably like the idea of everyone dressing the same way, like they did in Communist China under Mao Tse-Tung. I do favor equality, up to a point, but as in all things there are limits, and I also like freedom. In the United States, we do not have perfect economic equality. Some people live in bigger houses than others, and some people live in apartments because they cannot afford a house. In a free society, it's not government's job to homogenize that; even out the disparities a little, yes, but not make everyone exactly equal in economic means. That is not a legitimate reason to force public school students to wear uniforms.

If enough people like school uniforms, then let the school offer a uniform, but make it voluntary. Take it a step further: Make the uniform voluntary, but if a student violates the dress code, make the uniform mandatory for that student for the remainder of the school year. The administration should be required to take a photograph of the offensive clothing as proof, in case the student exercises the right (which all students have anyway) to challenge the punishment. That will put the school on firm legal ground and it should put a stop to violations. Problem solved.

My son has quite a few unused shirts he got from a relative, all of which fit, and he doesn't need a uniform. If you want your kids to wear it, that's fine with me, but there's no reason for Matthew to have one and I resent it being forced on him to suit your personal taste and convenience. That is not how we do things in the land of the free, and if you want to keep this country free, don't spend thirteen of the most formative years of their lives training our kids to dress exactly the same way because the government dictates to them that they must.

[Guest Fern]

So you don't believe in freedom and personal liberty?

Then why are you living here? Since freedom and personal liberty is the core basis of our constitutional republic you should be miserable here.

Wouldn't you be more comfortable living in Iraq? You would be popular with the Ayatollahs (warning - conversion required). They don't believe in personal liberty and freedom either. They do believe in uniform attire. They have special police that goes around and makes sure people meet a minimum uniform appearance standard (especially women).

Their beliefs with limits on freedom derive from their good book, the Koran.

An incisive and deeply philosophical comment on freedom and liberty from the anonymous guest brigade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Bern. I am Fern. I am no longer anonymous. You can tell by my profile page, that I am ........ oh wait, I don't have one. You do, but it appears you left no information about yourself there. Well at least we have names. That should appease those who are troubled by all those anonymous posts.

You would compare the religion and culture of an entire people to minor children attending classes at a secondary school? Are you really threatened by uniformity, or are you a whiny bigot? Responsibility and accountability Bern. Everyone has his limits Bern. Where and when do you enforce yours? Interesting Bern?

[Guest Guest]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

The honorable president of the Board of Ed should put in a resolution that Bd of Ed members wear uniforms at their meetings and when performing in their official capacity.

The school community is not just students, it is students, teachers, administrators and support staff. So while she'd at it, I suggest that a resolution be passed to require uniforms for all.

Everyone is in the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They do wear uniforms. It's called formal and causual business attire. And while I don't go to every BOE meeting I think it's safe to say they are usually dressed properly for the function they perform as BOE members.

Maybe you're to dense to get it so I'll outline it for you.

1. The school system currently has a dress code.

2. The students and parents do everything possible to side step the dress code.

3. A tremendous amount of resources are wasted trying to enforce the dress code.

The school system is requiring khaki pants and a polo shirt, not a Hitler Youth uniform. So use your common sense for once. Your civil rights will not be violated and your freedoms will remain in tact.

[Guest Guest]

You don't know anything about Melanie. I do. None of your little imaginings are true. You made it all up. Where do you people get off making up things about people you don't even know?

So you should tell Melanie the same, this is what she wrote:

"Dear fellow parents, my children are hell on wheels. I've spoiled them rotten, let them wear clothing I knew they shouldn't wear and never had the guts or the integrity to set limits on my own children. So now that I've screwed up parenting my own children to the point that I can't handle them, I want the rest of the parents in town to force their children to wear uniforms to cover the mistakes and failures I've made with my own children. I really wish these young people weren't competing with each other over who could dress the coolest, but since I couldn't instill those values in my own children, I'm going to force your children to wear a uniform to make up for my failures as a parent."

[Strife767]

Ok, my reason for saying "you won't like my opinion" is I was responding to what I thought was a "student", uniforms are not a popular topic with high school students, that why. My choice for uniforms over the current dress code is I've yet to see a dress code inforced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you're saying that were the dress code to be enforced, you would prefer it over uniforms? (just making sure)

[Bern]

Hello Bern. I am Fern. I am no longer anonymous. You can tell by my profile page, that I am ........ oh wait, I don't have one.  You do, but it appears you left no information about yourself there.  Well at least we have names. That should appease those who are troubled by all those anonymous posts.

You would compare the religion and culture of an entire people to minor children attending classes at a secondary school?  Are you really threatened by uniformity, or are you a whiny bigot? Responsibility and accountability Bern.  Everyone has his limits Bern. Where and when do you enforce yours? Interesting Bern?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The advantage of registering is that posts from you will be identified as being from you instead of the guest group. Which is helpful.

By saying they're minor children I think you've just proved my previous statement that some are willing to impose upon their children they would never accept for themselves.

Of course there are limits. I would never let my son wear pants that hang below his ass or wear clothing that can be considered provocative or obscene. Plus he can't wear clothing that are dingy such as having holes in his pants. But then its not a battle since he does not have the desire to do that.

We should not have to suffer uniforms because some parents don't not want to enforce clothing rules or don't have the wherewithal to apply those rules.

There's is something lacking in a school system if they require uniform rules to supply a decent education. It indicates a serious weakness in the school disciplinary system and the system's lack of inculcating a respect values system amongst students, and between students and the staff.

Administrators resorting to uniforms in a public school are failures.

[Guest Paul]

They do wear uniforms.  It's called formal and causual business attire.  And while I don't go to every BOE meeting I think it's safe to say they are usually dressed properly for the function they perform as BOE members.

Maybe you're to dense to get it so I'll outline it for you. 

1. The school system currently has a dress code. 

2. The students and parents do everything possible to side step the dress code.

3. A tremendous amount of resources are wasted trying to enforce the dress code.

The school system is requiring khaki pants and a polo shirt, not a Hitler Youth uniform.  So use your common sense for once.  Your civil rights will not be violated and your freedoms will remain in tact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What resources are wasted trying to enforce the dress code? I'd like specifics.

On the mornings when I've seen students walking into the high school, they look OK to me. In the five years we've had at least one of our children in Kearny High, I'm not hearing reports of any major problems. Are you sure this "problem" isn't being exaggerated because people have gotten themselves invested in the idea of uniforms?

Hitler youth uniforms looked every bit as innocuous as those being suggested by our Board. The particular color isn't the point. The very act of being forced to wear a particular color of khaki pants and a polo shirt is a curtailment of freedom, and while it may not be the biggest deal in the world, it's big enough when you think about the message it sends over thirteen years of elementary and secondary education.

[Bern]

They do wear uniforms.  It's called formal and causual business attire.  And while I don't go to every BOE meeting I think it's safe to say they are usually dressed properly for the function they perform as BOE members.

Maybe you're to dense to get it so I'll outline it for you. 

1. The school system currently has a dress code. 

2. The students and parents do everything possible to side step the dress code.

3. A tremendous amount of resources are wasted trying to enforce the dress code.

The school system is requiring khaki pants and a polo shirt, not a Hitler Youth uniform.  So use your common sense for once.  Your civil rights will not be violated and your freedoms will remain in tact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are the proposed rules? Do both boys and girls have to wear khaki pants? I would think that it should apply to girls too, preventing provocative display.

Are they required to be a uniform color? Will there be issues if some wear expensive name brand polo shirts? Or will the khaki pants and shirts be standard from some uniform supplier?

Can they wear shorts in May and June?

Nothing about footwear?

If they can't enforce a simple dress code, what makes them think they can enforce this?

[Guest Paul]

You don't know anything about Melanie. I do. None of your little imaginings are true. You made it all up. Where do you people get off making up things about people you don't even know?

So you should tell Melanie the same, this is what she wrote:

"Dear fellow parents, my children are hell on wheels. I've spoiled them rotten, let them wear clothing I knew they shouldn't wear and never had the guts or the integrity to set limits on my own children. So now that I've screwed up parenting my own children to the point that I can't handle them, I want the rest of the parents in town to force their children to wear uniforms to cover the mistakes and failures I've made with my own children. I really wish these young people weren't competing with each other over who could dress the coolest, but since I couldn't instill those values in my own children, I'm going to force your children to wear a uniform to make up for my failures as a parent."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the lead-in to that paragraph: "In other words, here's what this guest is saying." She was commenting on what guest had written in post 11, not describing her own kids. That's why she put it in quotes.

[Guest concerned parent]

Give me a call, and let's fight it. We're in the book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paul I just may give you a call. I DO NOT think that my children should have to wear a uniform to a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Parents need to open their eyes to what their children are wearing. Shame on them if they can not dress their child appropriately for school. There is a dress code in the HIGH SCHOOL now ENFORCE IT. If parents had to leave work everytime their child left for school looking in any way sloppy, disrespectful, or inappropriate they certainly would supervise the child. PARENTS COME ON LETS DO YOUR JOB! WE HAD OUR CHILDREN LETS TAKE CARE OF THEM AND STOP WANTING EVERYONE TO DO THE JOB FOR YOU.

again NO UNIFORMS IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL. NEWARK DOES NOT EVEN HAVE UNIFORMS. I also agree if the students need to wear them the faculty, and the hall monitors, etc should also wear them. Take a look at some of the young teachers that approach the school in some of there short skirts, low tops this is not a good example, but it is being done.

[Guest Fern]

The advantage of registering is that posts from you will be identified as being from you instead of the guest group. Which is helpful.

By saying they're minor children I think you've just proved my previous statement that some are willing to impose upon their children they would never accept for themselves.

Of course there are limits. I would never let my son wear pants that hang below his ass or wear clothing that can be considered provocative or obscene. Plus he can't wear clothing that are dingy such as having holes in his pants. But then its not a battle since he does not have the desire to do that.

We should not have to suffer uniforms because some parents don't not want to enforce clothing rules or don't have the wherewithal to apply those rules.

There's is something lacking in a school system if they require uniform rules to supply a decent education. It indicates a serious weakness in the school disciplinary system and the system's lack of inculcating a respect values system amongst students, and between students and the staff.

Administrators resorting to uniforms in a public school are failures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah Yeah Yeah So I was talking outta my ass.......... but I still don't agree.

I do not wish to dress my teenage, high school student. Nor should I have to. He dresses himself - I hope I did my job as a parent. The problem is that far too many didn't, can't, won't, will never.... etc etc etc.

Suffer uniforms ??? What is this suffering you speak of?

I am suffering, having to read words like inculcating.

You can type inculcating all day....... it won't impress me anymore than it did the first time, (or change my opinion). But it was a nice touch.

"Of course there are limits"...... why? I wish to live free with all the perks that come with it................... now you want to limit me? I demand my personal liberty.

[Guest Paul]

Paul I just may give you a call.  I DO NOT think that my children should have to wear a uniform to a PUBLIC SCHOOL.  Parents need to open their eyes to what their children are wearing.  Shame on them if they can not dress their child appropriately for school.  There is a dress code in the HIGH SCHOOL now ENFORCE IT.  If parents had to leave work everytime their child left for school looking in any way sloppy, disrespectful, or inappropriate they certainly would supervise the child.  PARENTS COME ON LETS DO YOUR JOB!  WE HAD OUR CHILDREN LETS TAKE CARE OF THEM AND STOP WANTING EVERYONE TO DO THE JOB FOR YOU.

again NO UNIFORMS IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL.  NEWARK DOES NOT EVEN HAVE UNIFORMS.  I also agree if the students need to wear them the faculty, and the hall monitors, etc should also wear them.  Take a look at some of the young teachers that approach the school in some of there short skirts, low tops this is not a good example, but it is being done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great, I'd love to hear from you. Bern, from you too. If we get together on this I'm sure we can come up with a reasonable approach to offer the Board of Education so we don't have our kids walking around looking like they're in a country with a dictatorship.

People should remember that when school children start out looking like that, and keep looking like that the whole time they are in school, it's only a matter of time before they become what they look like.

[Guest Guest]

Bern, if the same rules as the elementary uniforms will apply in the HS, then,

Both boys and girls wear khaki pants. Girls may wear khaki skirts, but they have to be long enough to reach the ends of their fingers.

Khaki is a hard color to enforce. The kids wear everything from greenish khaki to gray khaki, I don't think there have been any problems regarding color.

The kids wear the standard issue blue polo as well as purchased blue polos with embroidered logos. It doesn't make much difference.

Boys and girls can wear khaki shorts with their polos in May and June and I believe September and part of October.

Footwear requires a contained shoe - no flip flops, etc.

This can be enforced because it is not subjective. With a dress code (that isn't enforced) it is just a teacher's opinion that a student is inappropriately dressed. That teacher needs to get the support of the administration to enforce the dress code and unfortunately too many administrators are too close to retirement to get involved in that nonsense. As someone posted above, when a male (especially a younger male) teacher complains that a female student is dressed too provocatively for school, he is accused of being a pervert. Who needs that nonsense?!

This worked in the elementary schools last year.

What are the proposed rules? Do both boys and girls have to wear khaki pants? I would think that it should apply to girls too, preventing provocative display.

Are they required to be a uniform color? Will there be issues if some wear expensive name brand polo shirts? Or will the khaki pants and shirts be standard from some uniform supplier?

Can they wear shorts in May and June?

Nothing about footwear?

If they can't enforce a simple dress code, what makes them think they can enforce this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest Tom]

Bern, if the same rules as the elementary uniforms will apply in the HS, then,

Both boys and girls wear khaki pants.  Girls may wear khaki skirts, but they have to be long enough to reach the ends of their fingers.

Khaki is a hard color to enforce.  The kids wear everything from greenish khaki to gray khaki, I don't think there have been any problems regarding color.

The kids wear the standard issue blue polo as well as purchased blue polos with embroidered logos.  It doesn't make much difference.

Boys and girls can wear khaki shorts with their polos in May and June and I believe September and part of October.

Footwear requires a contained shoe - no flip flops, etc.

This can be enforced because it is not subjective.  With a dress code (that isn't enforced) it is just a teacher's opinion that a student is inappropriately dressed.  That teacher needs to get the support of the administration to enforce the dress code and unfortunately too many administrators are too close to retirement to get involved in that nonsense.  As someone posted above, when a male (especially a younger male) teacher complains that a female student is dressed too provocatively for school, he is accused of being a pervert.  Who needs that nonsense?! 

This worked in the elementary schools last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If "khaki is a hard color to enforce" is your concern, it seems as though there isn't much of a problem in the first place. It seems to me that if there's a real problem with how students dress, it should be easily addressed. I don't buy the argument that enforcement is too hard (where are the teachers who have the students sitting right in front of them for nearly an hour!), unless the violations people are worried about are meaningless, like string straps instead of three-inch straps on a tank top. If that's what the school is worried about, my advice would be to move on to other concerns.

[Bern]

Yeah Yeah Yeah  So I was talking outta my ass.......... but I still don't agree.

I do not wish to dress my teenage, high school student. Nor should I have to. He dresses himself - I hope I did my job as a parent.  The problem is that far too many didn't, can't, won't, will never.... etc etc etc.

Suffer uniforms ??? What is this suffering you speak of?

I am suffering, having to read words like inculcating.

You can type inculcating all day....... it won't impress me anymore than it did the first time, (or change my opinion).  But it was a nice touch.

"Of course there are limits"...... why?  I wish to live free with all the perks that come with it................... now you want to limit me? I demand my personal liberty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was it difficult looking up the word?