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Guest Keith- Marshall,Mo

Wating for 2smart to answer.

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What is it with Darwiniacs that they cling to this rediculous notion that the uniqueness of fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. is simply a result of chance.  Every human that's ever lived on earth (4 billion ?) has had fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. that were different from any other human that ever existed. The magnatude of this defies comprehension. Yet "Evolutionary Scientists" (Atheist Darwiniacs with a title)  love to come up with theories explaining this while ignoring the truth (God

did it).

Just remember that as ridiculous as it all may sound to you, many people find the theories of Christianity to be just as much if not more ridiculous. Meanwhile neither can conclusively "prove" anything. So, Relax, it'll be ok.

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What is it with Darwiniacs that they cling to this rediculous notion that the uniqueness of fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. is simply a result of chance.  Every human that's ever lived on earth (4 billion ?) has had fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. that were different from any other human that ever existed. The magnatude of this defies comprehension. Yet "Evolutionary Scientists" (Atheist Darwiniacs with a title)  love to come up with theories explaining this while ignoring the truth (God

did it).

2dumb2Btakenseriously

So you think that god sits around thinking up new fingerprint and iris patterns? Does he do the same for crystals? There is no way to prove that no two sets of fingerprints or irises were identical. Identical twins, triplets, etc., all have the same DNA.

The fact that the magnitude of this baffles you is no surprise.

"God did it" is not a scientific defense. It is the refuge of the unimaginitive and uninformed.

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What is it with Darwiniacs that they cling to this rediculous notion that the uniqueness of fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. is simply a result of chance.  Every human that's ever lived on earth (4 billion ?) has had fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. that were different from any other human that ever existed. The magnatude of this defies comprehension. Yet "Evolutionary Scientists" (Atheist Darwiniacs with a title)  love to come up with theories explaining this while ignoring the truth (God

did it).

4 billion? :P:lol::lol: Moron.

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Guest Cornell Grad Student
I was really hoping you'd explain why uniqueness somehow disproves evolution, but oh well. Guess I'll just destroy yet another of your theories.

Of course evolution doesn't explain the uniqueness of fingerprints. It has nothing to do with it. As others have said, it is because of sexual reproduction. Since you don't understand that, I'll explain further.

In sexual reproduction, both parents provide genetic material for the offspring. Therefore, the offspring is identical to neither.

Of course, this isn't a simple cut-and-paste job. My parents are both dark haired. Therefore, you would guess any children they produced would be dark haired as well. You would be correct for the first two, but my youngest brother is blond. This is because my mother carries genes from her father, who was blond and light-skinned. Because of the nature of genetics (I bet I'll have to explain this later) this gene skipped her to surface in her offspring.

Because no one else shares my parents' unique genetic histories, no one else would produce children with identical fingerprints, irises, etc. They are unique precisely because of the randomness inherent in sexual reproduction, yet you are trying to use this uniqueness to prove a lack of randomness. This is why we laugh at you.

Now I see that with this...

..you seem to think that evolution has a way of dumping traits with no survival value. It doesn't, which is why we carry around junk DNA. In fact, if evolution had dumped useless traits that might be an indicator of an intelligent designer.

I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

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Guest Paul
This is easily the most hilarious post I've ever read. Paul really outdid himself on this one (I'm thinking he was swigging Kool-aid while he was typing).

  Let me get this straight, if there was a God, he wouldn't want us to eat chicken or hot dogs ?  God "hands out" illnesses " ?  If there was a God, he wouldn't let a cat play with a mouse ?? 

  Paul, if you can't see how absolutely moronic your post was, then I seriously question your sanity.  It's one thing to be an atheist, but your rantings are bordering on lunacy.

"If there was a God." OK, assume there is a god who made all things and had the power to make them any way he liked.

God: "I'll make it so living organisms require nourishment for organic matter. I could put all necessary nutrients into plants, or I can make animals food for other animals."

Scenario 1. Food comes from non-sentient material that can't suffer when it is killed and consumed.

Scenario 2. Food thinks before it is killed and eaten.

If you want to make the assumption, then step out of the world as it is and imagine it as it could be if there was a god. Then decide which scenario is crazy.

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Guest Paul
The irony is that there is usually 45 minutes between when Strife posts and when you reply or visa versa. Coincidence? I think not.  Several times you have called people names and there is no denying that.  Whether someone goes by the name 2smart4you, or Strife or Paul or even Guest, a common courtesy should be given to a response, no matter what it is.  And by opening yourself up here with the kind of rhetoric you present here, you should expect comments back and there is no reason for me to present myself anymore than Strife tells who he is? It is not important who I am as Guest or who anyone is that posts here. It is a public forum and except of a very few, the identities here are all anonymous. 

You speak of integrity but refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance. You are correct you in one comment. Your son did face down some people, but only after your threat of lawsuit. That is courageous in his behalf, don't you think?  If only you could do good for this town instead of trying to bring it down.

We've been over all of that, and exactly as I suspected, this isn't about how I'm posting. It's about your dislike for what we believe and how we act to express our commitments.

As usual, you have your facts wrong.

1. Strife and I do not coordinate our posts. That is the fact.

2. Matthew faced people down before any lawsuit was threatened. That is the fact.

3. He has done good for the town. We've gone over all of this. You just don't agree.

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Guest Frank
This is easily the most hilarious post I've ever read. Paul really outdid himself on this one (I'm thinking he was swigging Kool-aid while he was typing).

  Let me get this straight, if there was a God, he wouldn't want us to eat chicken or hot dogs ?  God "hands out" illnesses " ?  If there was a God, he wouldn't let a cat play with a mouse ?? 

  Paul, if you can't see how absolutely moronic your post was, then I seriously question your sanity.  It's one thing to be an atheist, but your rantings are bordering on lunacy.

What's moronic is turning to God for love and comfort, and then thinking that this same God deliberately fashioned the world so that innocent creatures could suffer. And yet that's exactly what 2dim4words believes. He should refrain from calling other people moronic.

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Guest Frank
What is it with Darwiniacs that they cling to this rediculous notion that the uniqueness of fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. is simply a result of chance.  Every human that's ever lived on earth (4 billion ?) has had fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc. that were different from any other human that ever existed. The magnatude of this defies comprehension. Yet "Evolutionary Scientists" (Atheist Darwiniacs with a title)  love to come up with theories explaining this while ignoring the truth (God

did it).

You'll never convince someone like this. The vast body of data supporting evolution and the fact that it all supports the same conclusions means nothing to them. They think evolution challenges what they believe. So they don't believe it. If the facts don't support their beliefs, throw away the facts. They'll never change their minds. That's all that's happening here.

Still, I'm glad people are posting in response because maybe someone with an open mind will read the explanation and understand why evolution is sound and these attacks against it are not. The science 2dim4words is trashing is accepted all over the world by the entire scientific community, and is being applied in fields like medicine with real effects on our lives. You can bet that if 2dim4words ever needs one of the treatments that evolutionary science is responsible for, he won't turn it down. In fact, it's very likely he or someone close to him has already gotten the benefit of them.

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Guest Frank
There you go with the name calling again.  Being an embarrassment and name calling are two different things.  You should talk about being an online alias?  You never did tell who you are so stop thowing stones about that comment.  Who ever said anything about a death threat? That is nothing about what this is about? It had to do with name calling.  Get your facts right.

The real difference here is that an identifiable family has been verbally assaulted over a prolonged people of time by some very mean-spirited, narrow-minded, ignorant people. It doesn't take much to go from there to violence, and one of the reasons people are willing to go into attack mode here is that they are allowed to remain anonymous.

By contrast, calling an unidentifiable person "2dim4words" after he himself has invited that retort by calling himself "2smart4u" (which he plainly is not!) may not be overly gracious, but it isn't dangerous to anyone. The mean-spirited attacks on Matthew are potentially dangerous. That's the difference that matters.

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I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

    Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

That's quite an (ironically, if you are being honest about your credentials) unscientific guess, considering that there is not even any evidence for the existence of the agent you're "guessing" is the cause for these 'uniquenesses.' (not to mention that none of the things you mentioned are either 1. unique among only humans, or 2. unique only in humans; koalas have fingerprints very similar to humans', for example)

Your "guess" is premature, and anyone familiar with science would know that. It lies in the same realm as suggesting ghosts as the cause of an event when there is no proof that there even exist ghosts to begin with.

All in all, you are toeing the line of the argument from incredulity--you're not asserting divine intervention, but you're not too shy of it either.

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The real difference here is that an identifiable family has been verbally assaulted over a prolonged people of time by some very mean-spirited, narrow-minded, ignorant people. It doesn't take much to go from there to violence, and one of the reasons people are willing to go into attack mode here is that they are allowed to remain anonymous.

By contrast, calling an unidentifiable person "2dim4words" after he himself has invited that retort by calling himself "2smart4u" (which he plainly is not!) may not be overly gracious, but it isn't dangerous to anyone. The mean-spirited attacks on Matthew are potentially dangerous. That's the difference that matters.

Exactly, thank you.

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I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

    Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

RIIIIGHT. So precisely what is wrong with my analysis? It has nothing to do with evolutionary biology, as someone of your 'credentials' would certainly know. No two people on Earth have identical DNA because of basic genetics. Why, therefore, would thay have identical fingerprints?

I'm guessing that was the only response to my post 2Dim will make.

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Guest Guest
I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

    Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

Nice appeal to authority.

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I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

    Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

I have to point out that this is the second time a mysterious grad student has come in on a white horse to make an appeal to authority in 2Dim's behalf after he found himself hopelessly outclassed:

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...indpost&p=42824

Interesting, eh?

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Guest Tom
Just remember that as ridiculous as it all may sound to you, many people find the theories of Christianity to be just as much if not more ridiculous. Meanwhile neither can conclusively "prove" anything. So, Relax, it'll be ok.

There is a vast difference, however, between the science of evolution and the Christian religion. Evolutionary science is responsible for many developments in modern medicine and is at the heart of modern biology. Christianity has a long history of many accomplishments, too, but also a long history of very large black eyes, and it isn't science. I hope it'll be OK, too, but when both science and religion have such major effects on our lives, people aren't wrong to take them both seriously.

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Guest Tom
I need to add my 2 cents here. As a Biology grad working on my Doctorate in Evolutionary Biology ( I presently hold a teaching position at NYU ), I have to correct a statement that's been made here.

    Someone stated here that "sexual reproduction" is responsible for the uniqueness of the human body (fingerprints, irises, DNA, etc.). That is patently false. In reality, it is a scientific mystery. Atheists have their own theories on the subject (that don't involve God), but the truth is they're no more than guesses. My own "guess" is Intelligent Design.

Yeah, you and Behe. A likely story. Is your little explanation going to be on your doctoral thesis? I doubt it. Not if you hope to become a PhD.

Now let me make sure I have this right. When humans reproduce, a sperm enters an egg, and the combination of the two creates a new, single-celled zygote. Because each sperm and each egg are genetically distinct in themselves, and because each parent is carrying certain traits of his own, the odds against ever getting two individuals who are genetically identical (except for identical twins) are astronomical. That's not guesswork. It's an established and proven fact.

When non-sexual species reproduce, are the offspring genetically identical to the parents? If not, all that tells us is that the composition of DNA varies from individual to individual, even in non-sexual species. So what? It doesn't in any way, shape or form suggest that anyone designed it that way.

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Guest 2smart4u
"If there was a God." OK, assume there is a god who made all things and had the power to make them any way he liked.

God: "I'll make it so living organisms require nourishment for organic matter. I could put all necessary nutrients into plants, or I can make animals food for other animals."

Scenario 1. Food comes from non-sentient material that can't suffer when it is killed and consumed.

Scenario 2. Food thinks before it is killed and eaten.

If you want to make the assumption, then step out of the world as it is and imagine it as it could be if there was a god. Then decide which scenario is crazy.

Unbelieveable !! So, in your world we would all graze for our food alongside dogs and cats and lions and bears. And we would all love each other and never cause any harm to one another. There would also be no disease, no germs to make us sick, no earthquakes, lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes or tidal waves becaause God certainly wouldn't want to harm us. In your world I suppose there would also be no hunger , poverty or wars. Additionally, we would all have high-paying jobs because certainly God wouldn't want any poor people.

Your utopian ideas are just bizarre; "Because God didn't create the world according to Paul's design, there must not be a God". You need to see a mental health professional.

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Guest Guest
We've been over all of that, and exactly as I suspected, this isn't about how I'm posting. It's about your dislike for what we believe and how we act to express our commitments.

As usual, you have your facts wrong.

1. Strife and I do not coordinate our posts. That is the fact.

2. Matthew faced people down before any lawsuit was threatened. That is the fact.

3. He has done good for the town. We've gone over all of this. You just don't agree.

Each time you post it just amazes me more and more. If you say it enough times, you think people just might start believing it. I guess you already forgot about the media circus you brought in behind your son, then the law suits started flying. I guess you got me on that one. As far as # 3, what good has Matthew done for this town? I am still trying to figure that one out?

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Unbelieveable !!  So, in your world we would all graze for our food alongside dogs and cats and lions and bears. And we would all love each other and never cause any harm to one another. There would also be no disease, no germs to make us sick, no earthquakes, lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes or tidal waves becaause God  certainly wouldn't want to harm us. In your world I suppose there would also be no hunger , poverty or wars. Additionally, we would all have high-paying jobs because certainly God wouldn't want any poor people.

  Your utopian ideas are just bizarre; "Because God didn't create the world according to Paul's design, there must not be a God". You need to see a mental health professional.

Sounds good to me. Wouldn't you do it that way if you could? We could, of course, pick up our food and eat it with our hands, but except for that, it sounds like a great deal. In fact, isn't that what you claim God had in mind in the first place? What's crazy about it?

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Guest Guest
Each time you post it just amazes me more and more. If you say it enough times, you think people just might start believing it.  I guess you already forgot about the media circus you brought in behind your son, then the law suits started flying.  I guess you got me on that one.  As far as # 3, what good has Matthew done for this town?  I am still trying to figure that one out?

The teachers and students are going to be educated on the Constitution. Obviously that wasn't happening. A renegade teacher was brought into line. Those are excellent accomplishments for one 17-year-old in one year, which is why he is being recognized and rewarded for them.

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Unbelieveable !!  So, in your world we would all graze for our food alongside dogs and cats and lions and bears.

It would be better than killing creatures capable of feeling pain for our food.

In fact, if there was a god, he could have made ALL life photosynthetic, getting energy directly from the sun, which currently does provide all our (humans') energy, but in a very complex and convoluted way. Then no creature would have to kill another. You wouldn't consider that a better world?

And we would all love each other and never cause any harm to one another. There would also be no disease, no germs to make us sick, no earthquakes, lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes or tidal waves becaause God  certainly wouldn't want to harm us. In your world I suppose there would also be no hunger , poverty or wars. Additionally, we would all have high-paying jobs because certainly God wouldn't want any poor people.

  Your utopian ideas are just bizarre; "Because God didn't create the world according to Paul's design, there must not be a God". You need to see a mental health professional.

It is not Paul, but people like you who say that there is a god that is all-powerful, all-knowing, and omnibenevolent. Fact is that reality, as it is, forces at least one or two of those qualities not to be true, even as a suggestion; this is what we're pointing out. Your God CAN'T exist, and the reality all around us is proof. At BEST, there is a god or gods and you have basically sorely misdefined him/her/them/it.

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Each time you post it just amazes me more and more. If you say it enough times, you think people just might start believing it.  I guess you already forgot about the media circus you brought in behind your son, then the law suits started flying.

Fact: Matthew "faced down" Paszkiewicz in the meeting with Somma.

Fact: The media was not even made aware of the relevant events until over a month later.

I guess you got me on that one.  As far as # 3, what good has Matthew done for this town?  I am still trying to figure that one out?

"the board agreed to train teachers and students about the separation of church and state in the public schools and the distinction between the scientific theory of evolution and the religious doctrine of creationism. The board also agreed to commend Matthew for his “courage and integrity.”"

Sounds pretty good to me. Of course, being the sore loser you are, you'll never see that. All you care about is that your fundie buddy was shamed in front of the country, so now Matthew will always be the bad guy to you. :rolleyes:

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Guest Paul
Unbelieveable !!  So, in your world we would all graze for our food alongside dogs and cats and lions and bears. And we would all love each other and never cause any harm to one another. There would also be no disease, no germs to make us sick, no earthquakes, lightning, hurricanes, tornadoes or tidal waves becaause God  certainly wouldn't want to harm us. In your world I suppose there would also be no hunger , poverty or wars. Additionally, we would all have high-paying jobs because certainly God wouldn't want any poor people.

  Your utopian ideas are just bizarre; "Because God didn't create the world according to Paul's design, there must not be a God". You need to see a mental health professional.

Well, we wouldn't have to graze. We could sit down at a formal table if you like. Or we could have a picnic, or we could pick berries off the bush. And the beauty of it would be that the vegetable protein could taste like chocolate! Or whatever we wanted. We could explore all the different tastes our marvelous creator could imagine, and those would be infinite, and all of it without getting fat.

Personally, I'd like to listen to a lot of music. I do anyway. Listen to the finest artists as though they were playing live, in perfect sound, and learn all there is to know about every great composition and every great artist. I could spend thousands of years just on that. And then start on something else. Or maybe do a little bit of everything. Maybe that's what actually happens after we die - not that there's any evidence of it, but wouldn't that be something. And why not?

We'd all love each other, that a definite, and why shouldn't we, all being fashioned in the image of our awesome God. We wouldn't get sick. There'd be no natural disasters. No hunger, poverty or wars. Money probably wouldn't mean much, but whatever we had to do, we'd do superbly well because we were fashioned in God's image. Sounds good to me.

In fact, isn't that exactly what you claim Adam and Eve were given in the first place? That's what some Christians tell me. Are they crazy too? Or could it be that after all these months you're finally starting to get it?

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