doc13mets

The problem isn't the wages of new hires at all. They get paid peanuts. It's the wages of those that are at the top steps. And I agree with you that laid off firefighters should be at the top of all hiring lists. I know you never represented yourself as a PR guy. But as you know once you identify yourself from a specific department and speak publically you automatically get labeled as such (even if that's unfair). I was just trying to point out sometimes you may say something which sounds odd (just because of the way you approach the matter or phrase it) but you are always on point. I'm sick of "guests" comments as well. They hold little weight.

They do provide a great service and do a good job as well. Kearny could learn from this, get those cops/firefighters back into the front lines!

I guess as Jack Nicholson said in a Few Good Men. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! Got pretty quiet didn't we?

In fact here is the article to prove it. And beyond the article I know it's true. East Newark pays Harrison $45,000 a year to provide the service. Wrong again buddy!! East Newark/Harrison Dispatch

wow... East Newark pays a lump yearly sum for EMS service. You have you stories all messed up. In addition to the lump sum Harrison gets paid they also bill insurance of East Newark residents and get extra money that way. And not for nothing when Harrison EMS comes to East Newark they put ENFD on standby to cover them, they end up with more fire protection then before that EMS call came in. Also the rumor was East Newark was going to buy Harrison a new ambulance and forgo the yearly payment for the next few years. But I guess that isn't going to happen now that HFD is cutting back. There goes that EMS money!! And what does "harrison pays same with school system" mean?

That makes no sense. Even if what you say is true (and it isn't), lets be reasonable would anyone provide a service that they aren't getting paid for? Why would Harrison agree to it, they would be nuts. Anyway lets assume for one second that what you say is true. East Newark has not paid anything to Harrison for that service. How would them paying for dispatching service all of a sudden mean a merger in the police department? That makes no sense.

I agree with all of your points and responses. I have often been thinking about a class action lawsuit in the residency case. Personally I don't think this is a way to circumvent anything. Towns from time to time contract other towns to provide services. Just because East Newark happens to not be civil service shouldn't stop anyone from discussing such a deal. East Newarks cops are paid less then Harrison cops it's just a matter of fact that East Newark employees make less, so it's a way for Harrison to benefit. Do you agree that more paid firefighters are a better thing? Do you agree under the current system Harrison will not hire more firefighters? I believe you will say yes to both then why not entertain this idea? East Newark will still have to offer a test of sorts, just like Millburn, Montclair, Cherry Hill and other such Paid non civil service towns do. I have to say that was one of your most on point posts I've read. I guess thats what we get when we actually discuss and debate questions without just making stupid insults. Wish we could have more of this on this board!!

While I believe Jus sayin's intentions are good he may not be the best PR person as sometimes his points come across the wrong way. But if you read between the lines he's trying to make a point. I don't defend any one person in this matter. I just speak to my belief that I believe Kearny and Harrison are best served with a career fire department. Fire protection makes up a small amount of the tax payers dollar in terms of % of total taxes paid. If we lost career fire protection our Fire Insurance rates will surely go up. Taxes will not be lowered that I am sure of. Look over to North Arlington how much do they pay in taxes? Wait what? They have a volunteer department. Wow where are the tax savings there? Kearny FD provides a great service that I would never want to see reduced. It's a shame what is happening in Harrison. Something needs to be done, thats why I am trying to offer solutions.

I am not misinformed. I said East Newark is paying "them" to do so. By them I meant the Town of Harrison. What Harrison pays there employees to do or not to do is not of East Newarks concern. East Newark pays Harrison to provide dispatch services.

This is not the best move for the safety of Harrison. Changes are in the works, but they don't have to be so drastic. If Harrison does go down to 20 odd men they would have to be cuts in the ranks but you honestly you still need rank and you still need to pay them. Those with the rank take huge liability and make life or death decisions. They should be compensated as such. You make not think the Fire Department is needed but that just means you are oblivious to your surroundings.

Your dispatchers are dispatching East Newark Police and Fire because: 1. East Newark is paying them to do so. 2. Harrison gets more state aid for sharing services. 1+2=More money for Harrison = savings for Harrison Tax payers. yaay. Actually if anyone does qualify that's currently employed by the town it would be him. The Fire Chief was a cop. I think they would want to bring in an outsider though or at least I hope they would. One that would be clean of local politics.

Great article. I personally would vote to increase taxes (with in reason) if it guaranteed public safety at the levels I have now. I've said that from day one. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been put on the table in Harrison or Kearny.

Let's be real hear. Harrison isn't going to hire anyone off of any list any time soon. When was the last time they hired? 6 or 7 years ago? If the next person on the list was a Kearny, Harrison or even East Newark resident I would be all for them getting hired. I do support the civil service method and the rules prescribed but unfortunately due to a lawsuit by the NCAAP back in the day Kearny and Harrison haven't been able to operate under those rules outlined for civil service procedures. They no longer can have a residency preference which makes the process unfair. Unfair how... well why is it fair that a Jersey City or Newark resident can be put on a hiring list in the town where I have grown up my whole life and I can't be put on theirs? For that one reason I believe the Civil Service hiring rules are unfair. And how do you think it felt to be the next guy on Harrison's FD list back when the Jackson Volunteer Fire Department's paid drivers were hired through the Rice Bill? I am for all Civil Service protections once hired though. I myself currently it would be an extremely difficult decision to make to be a paid firefighter for East Newark under the plan I proposed. I would be taking a pay cut for one in the 10's of thousands. In my current job I don't pay a dime for my health care and I also get a pension which I do not contribute and I just got vested in that. I would like to see Kearny and Harrison firefighters be from Kearny and Harrison and well maybe even East Newark. Otherwise you get some people who make statements such as "Why would I take one foot in that firehouse if they aren't paying me." I hope and truely believe the majority of the newer guys aren't like that but one bad apple spoiled my taste of them. (Especially considering I pay his salary) Beyond that I personally think all volunteer firefighters should get preference right along with Military Vets for performing a civil duty. Back when North Hudson regionalized a few guys from the Volunteer department through a law suit were immediately hired. So it's not unreal. But my plan is much much different as the newly hired firefighters would not be Harrison employees. But never mind all of that. There is a serious problem in Harrison. The problem is in the near future there will not be able to provide adequate fire protection for themselves. I really don't know how it got so bad so quick. But the fact is it is bad and something needs to be done. Contracting another town for additional fire protection is not illegal and is done all over the country and I'm sure there are cases of it in NJ. The town they contract the service from how they hire is not of the other towns concern as long as they provide what they are being contracted for. I'm simply offering a suggestion to help increase paid fire protection in Harrison because I believe there is a need for it. Under the current system and contracts in Harrison it's just not going to happen and that's pretty much a fact. If Harrison decides to forgo that I believe there only other alternative would be to create their own Volunteer Department which I don't believe is the best thing for Harrison because oppose to contrary belief they are a busy town. I don't want to see any Harrison Firefighter or Police officer lose their job. All the guys I've come to know and meet are all good guys. They do care about their job and their community. The one thing I do know about the fire service is the advantages of a career department. I want to see that continue in West Hudson. The way things are sounding though the 40+ man department of Harrison is going to be history. When they are down to 20 odd men do you feel confident the residents will be protected? I know those guys will do their damn best, but its not fair to the residents who pay what they pay in taxes. I'm thinking outside the box here and trying to provide viable solutions to the problem. If you recall a year ago when they were first faced with layoffs I suggestion a decrease in the amount of captains and the creation of the lieutenant rank to help save jobs. That was thinking outside the box. The only other idea I ever hear is "Make Harrison volunteer" and then they make some jokes about lobsters and a big purple dinosaur. It drives me nuts. I ask Harrison's Bravest and Jus' sayin to offer up some real solutions of their own to increase or at least preserve (at today's levels) Harrison's fire protection while cutting budgets the way Harrison Mayor and Council are doing.

I've always supported the Fire Service. As many people on this site know I believe that Harrison and Kearny need fully staffed paid fire departments. I will continue to argue on that side even if one Harrison firefighter believe me to be from some "enemy camp". With all due respect not only do I hold a Bachelor of Arts from a University in this state. I also am quite educated (formally) in the fire service field. If I wasn't I probably would be one of those people that claim Harrison should have volunteers get rid of all those paid guys. So I will keep commenting on fire related topics. With all due respect. You still haven't pointed out any major flaws in my initial proposal. Again my proposal does not support layoffs of any kind. But offers a viable option for Harrison to continue with a fully paid fire service for their residents. Let's be real, Kearny would lose out on a merge (coverage wise) and so would East Newark (financially). But contracting East Newark to provide additional paid coverage once the next batch of guys retire is a potential solution. Let's be real. Harrison isn't going to replace those guys. So lets have a real debate about this. Point out flaws and offer compromise and solutions. Hell maybe we can come up with some plan that works well and maybe the respective town administrators read this and get some good ideas.

If you really are a Harrison Firefighter that is sad. You guys should big bigger then stupid insults. You have worked hard to be where you are and offer a vital service to your town. You didn't actually respond to my proposal though. Didn't give another suggestion. Didn't offer any reasons why my idea wouldn't work. You just made an insult. How about you grow up, pay attention to what's going on in this state and around the country and figure out a way to help the situation and keep the citizens safe at the same time. I give anyone credit for at least coming up with ideas. Even bad ones. But just making stupid remarks and insulting people doesn't help anything.

Actually I'm college educated and still work in education to this day. Maybe you should think outside the box.

One thing is certain the Harrison FD’s days are numbered. It’s really sad. They were a great department and still to this day have a number of great firefighters. Unfortunately the economy has shifted and the town continues to make cuts across the board. The FD being one of the biggest line items gets cut multiple times a year. Harrison is not safe without a fully funded/paid fire department. Harrison residents deserve and need at least 1 Engine, 1 Ladder and 2 EMS crews protecting them at all times. They are a service orientated department and do a lot more than just fight fires. I keep hearing about how health insurance costs are going to skyrocket and a number of guys will retire and there is no plan to replace any of them. They need to be replaced somehow and someway and volunteers in Harrison aren’t the simple answer. It’s not an overnight process. One thing I’ve learned in my West Hudson days is that East Newark provides similar services to Harrison except cheaper. Think about their respective police departments. Do you feel safer with 2 cops always on duty in a .1 square mile town, yes POINT ONE (that’s one tenth of a square mile for our Harrison High graduates). Relax the Harrison High comment was a joke, now back to business. Or do you feel safer in Harrison with the 2-3 patrol officers on duty? I’ll take East Newark any day of the week. Both are paid police departments that offer the same service. See what I mean? Ok so here it is. I’m not saying Harrison should merge with East Newark for fire protection services, but I believe they should consider contracting them to offer a fully paid engine or ladder company to supplement the retirees that they will not replace. Harrison would pay a lump sum to East Newark to offer this protection. (It’s not unheard of tons of towns all over the country are contracting their neighbors to offer fire protection) With this lump sum (which would be lower then what Harrison would pay for a fully manned engine company) East Newark could hire and staff one company 24/7. East Newark would benefit because they could make some money off the deal (as they would pay substantially lower salaries than Harrison, an example ENPD vs HPD salaries) and save Harrison money at the same time. Also you get local residents who care about the communities and still live around here to be paid firefighters, who could also be volunteers still in their off duty hours. No service reduction would happen in fact coverage would increase at a lower cost then what it is today. The end result would be keeping HFD running out of one station with EMS and say a Ladder and East Newark paid guys running out of their HQ or Cleveland Ave. They would be automatically responding to any call in Harrison as that’s what they are contracted to do. This is not a suggestion to replace any Harrison Firefighters job, nor a plan to replace the paid guys with volunteers. This is merely a suggestion to increase the amount of paid firefighters in the area and at a substantially lower cost.

Apparently they will not need to lay off firefighter because a number of the guys are expected to retire and there is no plan to hire any additional.

It's shocking to hear that they won't replace these retiring FF's. They are already at an all time low. Why not bring new guys in under a new contract. One with a little lower pay and a bigger share of benifits? You could get a lot of people to do the job for a little less. Lets keep as much of the paid department as we can. But if those guys leave and no replacements are found sounds like the town should shut down Cleveland Ave. Go with everything at HQ's hopefully have a Ladder/Engine/Ambulance manned each day. There are lots of different ways Harrison can save money and keep a paid fd. I could think of 3 feasibile ways off the tope of my head and I'm sure there are other idea's as well.

I've lived in Kearny my whole life and never made it over to Heniz's deli in Harrison. I hear I am missing out on some pretty great sandwiches. Do they have a combo deal or something for gossip?

See your post was actually solid and I agree with almost everything. Why do people feel the need to pull in firefighters with every argument. The provide a crucial service and we are lucky enough to have a great department. You can make a point without having to jab at other groups.

If you had those people open the gates and work in the playground you would lose so much more money. The young people that are doing this are getting paid something like $7 and change. The people you propose to do this would get paid at a much higher rate. Finacially this is the right move for the town.

Agreed. How many cops does Harrison have right now?

OK I think we can all agree the pension thing is a mess. People are saying that we should basically through the FF's/PO's pensions right out the window, well thats no the solution really either. A lot of these guys are working towards retirement and have a certain expectation in mind. We can just cut them all together. Now if we say we are going to reduce benefits for people in the system that are like 15 years away at least they can start making those adjustments to better prepare for retirement. Interesting article about the future of state aid and shared services Could this force Harrison, Kearny and East Newark to merge services such as DPW, FD, PD? If they towns got on the same page and made sure there was no reduction in front line manpower only a reduction in the supervisors we could save a big chunk of change. Also eliminating the Civil Service will allow West Hudson Residents to get some preference and be hired in the FD/PD. Wouldn't that be nice?

Not so complicated. You could even keep the current Harrison Fire Locations. Engine 3 on Cleveland and the Ladder at HQ with 2 EMS units. You consolidate the FD keep the line firefighter/officers and just eliminate the administrative staff, chief officers and training officer. Kearny can take care of that.