David Paszkiewicz should be fired

[Bryan]

On what basis?

Common sense.

None of them has even claimed it.

So what?

All we have is your say-so against all the reasons they don't have such an expectation.

I refuse to believe that you have no common sense.

Re: Copernicus

Just because the pope didn't issue his bull condemning Copernicus as a heretic until after his death doesn't mean that he wasn't persecuted during his life.

Quite right. Proceed whenever you are ready with your evidence that Copernicus was persecuted (my point, naturally, was that it can hardly be considered a persecution of Copernicus if Copernicus was dead ... unless you're assuming that the later papal bull resulted in purgatorial remonstrance or the like).

He knew full well what the implications of a heliocentric solar system were for the prevailing religious dogmas of the time.

You're good. Good at ignoring the evidence I presented that indicated that Copernicus' expectation of opposition came from the mathematicians and physicists of his day (that is, the scientific community as it existed at the time).

In fact, one aspect of the persecution is that with that kind of social pressure he probably kept quiet about quite a lot.

Ah. So social pressure is persecution, is it? So when a majority on KOTW oppose my views I can claim persecution? Thanks! That's good to know. Likewise, any modern scientist who promulgates views outside the mainstream, resulting in popular opposition from other scientists, is a victim of persecution.

Did you really intend to water down the term to that extent, or would you care to attempt another example?

Good God, Bryan (as it were), now you're going to tell us that the medieval church didn't make life miserable for people it considered heretics? Yes, of course you are. Moons of cheese, sentient rocks. Same old.

The medieval church most often didn't care if people were heretics, but there were notable exceptions during the Inquisition (largely prompted by the Roman church's ideological and territorial conflict with budding Protestantism). The Church for most of its history was a social institution and the believers of that time were as motley a group as modern believers (taking Catholics such as John Kerry who reject basic church teaching on abortion as just one example).

But this is really just another distraction. There were two points that I was addressing. First, that Copernicus was a secularist. Second, that Copernicus was persecuted for his beliefs. Both of those statements are factually incorrect (leaving the latter an open question until some evidence is provided). When I go about correcting the record, heroes like you ride to the rescue by assuring everyone that the Medieval church persecuted people.

I don't see much of a connection.

[Bryan]

I imagine had Paul insisted on being in that meeting, which he had every right to be in considering Matthew is a minor, the situation would have been taken much more seriously. And, had Paul notified Somma that the class had been recorded, I think Mr. P would have been stopped dead in his tracks.

In what way does your imagination inform you that "Mr. P would have been stopped dead in his tracks"?

I rather expect that Paszkiewicz would insist on having his supposed statements heard in context instead of chopped up piecemeal as in Matthew's "Gotcha!" pages. Wouldn't that have given away the game for the LaClairs?

The above is one alternative that could have been used, but it doesn't provide the heat that Paul was seeking. There may be nothing wrong with what Paul and Matthew did but lets call a spade a spade.

Props.

[Guest Twizzler]

I imagine had Paul insisted on being in that meeting, which he had every right to be in considering Matthew is a minor, the situation would have been taken much more seriously. And, had Paul notified Somma that the class had been recorded, I think Mr. P would have been stopped dead in his tracks.

The above is one alternative that could have been used, but it doesn't provide the heat that Paul was seeking. There may be nothing wrong with what Paul and Matthew did but lets call a spade a spade.

Stopped dead in his tracks in what way? They claim he stopped preaching after Matthew gave Somma a letter in late September. What do you mean by "stopped dead in his tracks." Please be specific.

You're right that catching Paszkiewicz in a series of lies provided considerable heat, and ammunition. But remember, the recording of the meeting wasn't released until February, after the story was all over the news and after the school district had said publicly that it did not intend to issue any corrections, institute any teacher or student training or anything like that.

Everything the school district did says they were hoping it would just go away. Imagining that they would have taken it more seriously if Paul was in the meeting is just wishful thinking. There's no basis for it, and it's contrary to everything they did.

[Guest Twizzler]

I don't see much of a connection.

No, you wouldn't. It's hard to see with your eyes closed.

Really, Bryan, this got old and lame long ago.

[Bryan]

No, you wouldn't. It's hard to see with your eyes closed.

My eyes are open, revealing that all you've got is this empty rhetoric with no reason to suppose that specific persecutions by the Medieval church equates with persecution of Copernicus.

Really, Bryan, this got old and lame long ago.

Probably textbook projection. Get yourself a cane. Or a walker.

[Guest Guest]

Stopped dead in his tracks in what way? They claim he stopped preaching after Matthew gave Somma a letter in late September. What do you mean by "stopped dead in his tracks." Please be specific.

You're right that catching Paszkiewicz in a series of lies provided considerable heat, and ammunition. But remember, the recording of the meeting wasn't released until February, after the story was all over the news and after the school district had said publicly that it did not intend to issue any corrections, institute any teacher or student training or anything like that.

Everything the school district did says they were hoping it would just go away. Imagining that they would have taken it more seriously if Paul was in the meeting is just wishful thinking. There's no basis for it, and it's contrary to everything they did.

There is plenty of basis for it. Paul and Matthew love these little battles. They have shown this time and again.

[Guest Guest]

There is plenty of basis for it. Paul and Matthew love these little battles. They have shown this time and again.

"There is plenty of basis for it," you say, but you can't provide any.

Then you go off topic immediately to something that is completely irrelevant.

You're not real good at thinking logically, are you?

[Guest Guest]

"There is plenty of basis for it," you say, but you can't provide any.

Then you go off topic immediately to something that is completely irrelevant.

You're not real good at thinking logically, are you?

It has been provided numerous times. You are free to believe what you like.

[Guest Guest]

It has been provided numerous times.

Lie.

[Guest Guest]

Lie.

Yes I know, everyone but Paul and Matthew are lying.

[Guest Guest]

Yes I know, everyone but Paul and Matthew are lying.

The liars are lying.

Don't you remember the big list of lies Paszkiewicz's apologists made up about LaClair family members? Here are the ones I remember off the top of my head:

1. Claiming Matthew intentionally chose to be in Paszkiewicz's class.

2. Claiming Matthew's sister had Paszkiewicz as a teacher.

2 1/2. When that was disproven, claiming that instead she had Paszkiewicz as a 'monitor' in a study hall.

3. Claiming that Matthew altered the sound recordings.

And so on. If you want me to go find the complete list, I will. In the meantime, why don't you show me Paul or Matthew's, or their supporters', lies about Paszkiewicz? Let's see how many you can come up with.

[Guest Guest]

Yes I know, everyone but Paul and Matthew are lying.

No, mainly just the right wing fundie nutjobs.

To people like you, words are like slogans. They don't really mean anything. They're just weapons you try to use to defend yourself from thinking. If you had some evidence that Paul or Matthew had lied, we would have heard it a year and a half ago.

When are you going to let this go?

[Guest Melanie]

The liars are lying.

Don't you remember the big list of lies Paszkiewicz's apologists made up about LaClair family members? Here are the ones I remember off the top of my head:

1. Claiming Matthew intentionally chose to be in Paszkiewicz's class.

2. Claiming Matthew's sister had Paszkiewicz as a teacher.

2 1/2. When that was disproven, claiming that instead she had Paszkiewicz as a 'monitor' in a study hall.

3. Claiming that Matthew altered the sound recordings.

And so on. If you want me to go find the complete list, I will. In the meantime, why don't you show me Paul or Matthew's, or their supporters', lies about Paszkiewicz? Let's see how many you can come up with.

It's the worst kind of lying they didn't care whether any of it was true. They just made it up to suit their own purposes. Then no doubt they went to church on Sunday, bowed their heads, closed their eyes real tight and convinced themselves what wonderful servants of God they are.

[Bryan]

It's the worst kind of lying they didn't care whether any of it was true. They just made it up to suit their own purposes. Then no doubt they went to church on Sunday, bowed their heads, closed their eyes real tight and convinced themselves what wonderful servants of God they are.

Is that what you did, Melanie?

"This Bryan doesn't a single thing about what evolution is, how it works or what it means."

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...ost&p=60910