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KHS Teacher Controversy


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According to the theory of the big bang the universe exploded from a single point

Not quite--the big bang wasn't like a bomb explosion. It was a rapid expansion of space-time.

Just wanted to make that small point, since a lot of people, creationists especially, seem to think of it as "nothing exploded into something," when that's actually quite a gross oversimplification not really suited to anyone past the grade school level.

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Guest Phrixus

1. Religion is a throwback to primitive times when humankind couldn't explain the natural world. Fortunately, that time has passed. Unfortunately, many otherwise rational individuals still believe in ghosts, goblins and the bogyman - all evidence to the contrary. We outgrew Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and alchemy, hopefully the Hairy Thunderer delusion will soon take it's proper place in the waste bin of history as well. It's too bad that snake oil salesmen like Ted Haggard, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson continue to prey on the gullible for their own profit (feel free to insert the Catholic Church as well. They define "predatory"). For my money, organized religion is the most evil, destructive, irrational force at work on the planet and, if we're not careful, quite capable of inciting the obliteration of civilization.

2. This next part is very simple. In the United States of America, it is ILLEGAL to promote religion in a publicly funded institution. Please refer to "establishment clause", "separation of church and state", or "Amendment I, Bill of Rights". There is no wriggle room here. Black and white, cut and dried, end of story, case closed.

3. Final rant: take a look around. How many of our most heinous current events are a direct or indirect result of religious fanaticism? Quick answer: most. Case in point - a "pro-life" President whom is directly responsible for the deaths of almost 4,000 American servicemen and women; as well as tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. And, oh yes, he prays. I, for one, can do without that kind of "religion".

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Guest Mr. Kirk

Well... matt is now known as the biggest douche in the whole school and in kearny for doing what he did...

i mean... he goes and asks the teacher to talk about it, then when the teacher does talk about it, he tapes it and frames him as preaching in class..

i had classes with mr. P and he never preached about the Gospel ever... he did mention about christian influences on certain time periods... but not more as other teachers do...

i mean... i dont think teachers should preach in class at all... but thats really not what he was doing... he was answering a question... and... as far as the constitution goes thats not against it...

this whole story is about imposing beliefs...

but what happens to the people that believe in intelligent design in schools? aren't they being imposed as well?

dont be a hypocrite like that... if you must use one argument for one side... you have to use it on the other side as well..

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Well... matt is now known as the biggest douche in the whole school and in kearny for doing what he did...

i mean... he goes and asks the teacher to talk about it, then when the teacher does talk about it, he tapes it and frames him as preaching in class..

i had classes with mr. P and he never preached about the Gospel ever... he did mention about christian influences on certain time periods... but not more as other teachers do...

i mean... i dont think teachers should preach in class at all... but thats really not what he was doing... he was answering a question... and... as far as the constitution goes thats not against it...

this whole story is about imposing beliefs...

but what happens to the people that believe in intelligent design in schools? aren't they being imposed as well?

dont be a hypocrite like that... if you must use one argument for one side... you have to use it on the other side as well..

Dear stupid,

Number one, why are you bringing this up again now?

Number two, Paszkiewicz was preaching and got caught. Get over it. Here are the links to two topics from KOTW that spell out exactly what happened.

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...=17885&st=0

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=17890

Do you really want to go over this again? If you do, read these two topics, then let's talk.

Number three, "intelligent design" isn't taught in the schools because it's not science. All you have to do is read the decision in the Kitzmiller case to know why this is the law and why it makes perfect sense. Here's the link: http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

So if you want to educate yourself and learn something, feel free to come back and discuss this. But if all you're going to do is make the same ridiculous arguments that have been destoyed time after time, why are you wasting our time with this?

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Well... matt is now known as the biggest douche in the whole school and in kearny for doing what he did...

i mean... he goes and asks the teacher to talk about it, then when the teacher does talk about it, he tapes it and frames him as preaching in class..

i had classes with mr. P and he never preached about the Gospel ever... he did mention about christian influences on certain time periods... but not more as other teachers do...

i mean... i dont think teachers should preach in class at all... but thats really not what he was doing... he was answering a question... and... as far as the constitution goes thats not against it...

this whole story is about imposing beliefs...

but what happens to the people that believe in intelligent design in schools? aren't they being imposed as well?

dont be a hypocrite like that... if you must use one argument for one side... you have to use it on the other side as well..

You're an absolute idiot. Anyone listening to the tapes knows that P preached in class. Also, P admitted it in the principal's office. P denied it to the principal until Matt said he had tapes whereupon P said "you got me."

This is something which was discussed many times, long ago with the facts being very obvious. Bringing it up now with your obviously false assertions is pure idiocy.

Are you trolling for attention?

As for your comment on intelligent design

The science curricula is based on science. Its not based on beliefs, which intelligent design is. Intelligent design belongs in the Church, not in the science classroom. Using you reasoning, because many believe in astrology, then astrology should be taught in the science classroom so we don't intrude on their beliefs.

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Dear stupid,

Number one, why are you bringing this up again now?

Number two, Paszkiewicz was preaching and got caught. Get over it. Here are the links to two topics from KOTW that spell out exactly what happened.

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...=17885&st=0

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=17890

Do you really want to go over this again? If you do, read these two topics, then let's talk.

Number three, "intelligent design" isn't taught in the schools because it's not science. All you have to do is read the decision in the Kitzmiller case to know why this is the law and why it makes perfect sense. Here's the link: http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

So if you want to educate yourself and learn something, feel free to come back and discuss this. But if all you're going to do is make the same ridiculous arguments that have been destoyed time after time, why are you wasting our time with this?

Sounds like Mr. Lawyer got his panties all bunched up again. I wonder why? The two topics you show are the LaClairs side of the story. Interesting take however.

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Sounds like Mr. Lawyer got his panties all bunched up again. I wonder why? The two topics you show are the LaClairs side of the story. Interesting take however.

Wrong. The two topics are direct quotes from the recordings, mainly unedited. They show in exquisite detail how Mr. Teechure brought up all the topics on his own.

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this whole story is about imposing beliefs...

but what happens to the people that believe in intelligent design in schools? aren't they being imposed as well?

dont be a hypocrite like that... if you must use one argument for one side... you have to use it on the other side as well..

You're not thinking about what an education is. Schools have curricula. The curricula are based upon what students will need to know for college and to compete in the world.

Students need to know about evolution and the big bang because these are both essential parts of the science curriculum.

Students do not need to know about a teacher's personal religious beliefs.

In addition, the law is very clear that a teacher may not push his own religious beliefs in a public school. Even the Rutherford Institute, which supports expanding religious influences in the schools, wouldn't defend this teacher. You can say he wasn't preaching all you want, but in fact he was. Every responsible adult who has spoken or written on this subject agrees that he was.

Besides, if we did it your way, the schools would have to teach all the religions. There are thousands of them. Don't you think the churches should be the place for that?

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Alright I know I haven't read all these posts so if I say something that has already been said please forgive me. But religion is an essential part of history. How can you talk about the Dark Ages without mentioning religion? How about the Crusades, are we to pretend they never happened? How can you talk about ancient societies without understanding their religion? By the logic of never talking about religion, I am allowed to tell my teacher that talking about Greek and Roman Mythology is a violation of church and state. Technically the mythology is based on an ancient religion, which some people do still practice. Would we be banned from talking about the Salem Witch Trials being they involve religion? To deny the impact religion has had on the world would serve only to show your ignorance. Now here I am talking about religion, does this force you to have certain religious views? I just finished a paper for my history class in which I had to analyze the creation accounts of five different cultures, should I bring a case against the school for that? I do not know why this is still drawing a debate, the topic is quite old. But let me ask you another question, isn't science just another belief system? You can argue it either way if you like and I hope that I have not fueled this debate anymore. But logic says that science is a belief system and maybe that shouldn't be taught either, or maybe we are to let history dissappear because it involves religion. In the end, religion is a necessary part of history, and Matt did seem as if he was provoking the debate, but whats done is done...you know what they say, no point in airing out your shit, it only stinks the rest of the room up.

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but what happens to the people that believe in intelligent design in schools? aren't they being imposed as well?

dont be a hypocrite like that... if you must use one argument for one side... you have to use it on the other side as well..

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7560/807/1600/view.jpg

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=11168

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Alright I know I haven't read all these posts so if I say something that has already been said please forgive me. But religion is an essential part of history. How can you talk about the Dark Ages without mentioning religion? How about the Crusades, are we to pretend they never happened? How can you talk about ancient societies without understanding their religion? By the logic of never talking about religion, I am allowed to tell my teacher that talking about Greek and Roman Mythology is a violation of church and state. Technically the mythology is based on an ancient religion, which some people do still practice. Would we be banned from talking about the Salem Witch Trials being they involve religion? To deny the impact religion has had on the world would serve only to show your ignorance. Now here I am talking about religion, does this force you to have certain religious views? I just finished a paper for my history class in which I had to analyze the creation accounts of five different cultures, should I bring a case against the school for that? I do not know why this is still drawing a debate, the topic is quite old. But let me ask you another question, isn't science just another belief system? You can argue it either way if you like and I hope that I have not fueled this debate anymore. But logic says that science is a belief system and maybe that shouldn't be taught either, or maybe we are to let history dissappear because it involves religion. In the end, religion is a necessary part of history, and Matt did seem as if he was provoking the debate, but whats done is done...you know what they say, no point in airing out your shit, it only stinks the rest of the room up.

I can't believe you're still saying this. No one says that a teacher can't talk about religion as part of history. That includes the Crusades, Greek and Roman mythology and Christian fundamentalism. But that's not this teacher was doing. He was evangelizing in a public school. If you want to argue for that, then argue for it, but don't try to defend it by arguing for something else.

Of course science is a belief system. So is mathematics. So are auto mechanics. So is health education. You want to talk about logic extensions of an argument, let's take your argument --- only I'll actually address the argument you just made, as opposed to what you did. By your "logic" all information and misinformation would be entitled to equal weight in the schools. Some people believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so let's make it part of the curriculum. I truly hate to use the word "ignorant," but you're being ignorant and your argument doesn't make a speck of sense.

Matt was not provoking the debate. He was challenging what Paszkiewicz was saying. Read the discussion as it evolved in the "Dissecting the Doofus" topic, linked on a few posts back. Paszkiewicz raised religious issues --- not history, but the nuts and bolts of his particular religious beliefs --- at least three times. At least three times Matthew tried to steer to the discussion back to where it belonged, but Paszkiewicz, being hell-bent (so to speak) on preaching his religion, insisted on pushing his views. That's what happened. You're just wrong. Read it.

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Guest *speedy1*

I haven't posted on this subject, due to the fact that it is ridiculus. First of all, everyone has got a knot in their panties over what? God, well how many times do you or your children say "Oh my god, god da---'t, oh god please help, you can all use those phrases anytime you want, but when it comes to finding out about this great man that you all ask for help or use his name you don't want to hear it! I am not a very religious person, but I think that this is hypocritical.

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Alright I know I haven't read all these posts so if I say something that has already been said please forgive me. But religion is an essential part of history. How can you talk about the Dark Ages without mentioning religion? How about the Crusades, are we to pretend they never happened? How can you talk about ancient societies without understanding their religion? By the logic of never talking about religion, I am allowed to tell my teacher that talking about Greek and Roman Mythology is a violation of church and state. Technically the mythology is based on an ancient religion, which some people do still practice. Would we be banned from talking about the Salem Witch Trials being they involve religion? To deny the impact religion has had on the world would serve only to show your ignorance. Now here I am talking about religion, does this force you to have certain religious views? I just finished a paper for my history class in which I had to analyze the creation accounts of five different cultures, should I bring a case against the school for that? I do not know why this is still drawing a debate, the topic is quite old. But let me ask you another question, isn't science just another belief system? You can argue it either way if you like and I hope that I have not fueled this debate anymore. But logic says that science is a belief system and maybe that shouldn't be taught either, or maybe we are to let history dissappear because it involves religion. In the end, religion is a necessary part of history, and Matt did seem as if he was provoking the debate, but whats done is done...you know what they say, no point in airing out your shit, it only stinks the rest of the room up.

There is a world of difference between discussing the history of religion and advocating a set of religious beliefs. Paszkiewicz was advocating his religious beliefs, and not just any beliefs but a very specific biblical view. "You belong in hell" isn't teaching history, and that was just one thing he said advocating his religious beliefs.

I don't understand why you can't get that difference. It scares me that you managed to get through high school without getting this, or maybe without being able to see the difference.

Can you explain that to us? Why can't you get that distinction? I'd really like to know.

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Guest *Autonomous*
Alright I know I haven't read all these posts so if I say something that has already been said please forgive me. But religion is an essential part of history. How can you talk about the Dark Ages without mentioning religion? How about the Crusades, are we to pretend they never happened? How can you talk about ancient societies without understanding their religion? By the logic of never talking about religion, I am allowed to tell my teacher that talking about Greek and Roman Mythology is a violation of church and state. Technically the mythology is based on an ancient religion, which some people do still practice. Would we be banned from talking about the Salem Witch Trials being they involve religion? To deny the impact religion has had on the world would serve only to show your ignorance. Now here I am talking about religion, does this force you to have certain religious views? I just finished a paper for my history class in which I had to analyze the creation accounts of five different cultures, should I bring a case against the school for that? I do not know why this is still drawing a debate, the topic is quite old. But let me ask you another question, isn't science just another belief system? You can argue it either way if you like and I hope that I have not fueled this debate anymore. But logic says that science is a belief system and maybe that shouldn't be taught either, or maybe we are to let history dissappear because it involves religion. In the end, religion is a necessary part of history, and Matt did seem as if he was provoking the debate, but whats done is done...you know what they say, no point in airing out your shit, it only stinks the rest of the room up.

You can in fact teach about religion. You cannot promote one religious viewpoint over another.

Science is not a belief system. Philosphical naturalism, which many scientists subscribe to, is. Science is methodologically naturalistic, but not philosophically naturalistic. It does not tell you what is true and what isn't, it simply produces possible models for how the world works.

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Guest Intelligent Person

No wonder America has such a poor reputation worldwide. The amount of stupidity, illogic, irrationality, and ignorance eminating from the keyboards of grown adults is stupefying.

You have all fallen victim to a mob mentality of the highest order: organized retardation and subjucation of the minorites.

F**K all of you backwater retards and Kudos to a 16 year old for being more intelligent and possessing more integrity than all of the adults in his backwards little shit town.

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Guest Guest
No wonder America has such a poor reputation worldwide. The amount of stupidity, illogic, irrationality, and ignorance eminating from the keyboards of grown adults is stupefying.

You have all fallen victim to a mob mentality of the highest order: organized retardation and subjucation of the minorites.

F**K all of you backwater retards and Kudos to a 16 year old for being more intelligent and possessing more integrity than all of the adults in his backwards little shit town.

Thank you Mr./Ms. day late dollar short for that insight.

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  • 10 months later...

Isn't the right to not stand for the Pledge an act of one's right to freedom of "speech" (freedom of expression)?

Edited by KOTW
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Guest Living Here and Seeing It

No wonder America has such a poor reputation worldwide. The amount of stupidity, illogic, irrationality, and ignorance eminating from the keyboards of grown adults is stupefying.

You have all fallen victim to a mob mentality of the highest order: organized retardation and subjucation of the minorites.

F**K all of you backwater retards and Kudos to a 16 year old for being more intelligent and possessing more integrity than all of the adults in his backwards little shit town.

**** me!!

Edited by KOTW
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Looking back on it, it's hard to believe that it really happened, that this little town really has that many bigots and stupid people in it who would defend telling kids that dinosaurs co-existed with humans. Is that Neanderthal still teaching? It's a disgrace.

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