KOTW as a vehicle for democracy

[Guest Paul]

In the topic on how dictatorships are created (which quickly turned into another mud-fight over the pledge of allegiance), the unknown person who posts as “Lincoln Logger” criticized my suggestion that KOTW could be a vehicle for a democracy, writing: “The last I looked Kearny on the WEB was not a town hall meeting. It is nothing more than a blog for people to express what they feel, good or bad. This is not a newspaper the last I looked?” Those remarks reflect an unfortunate lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the democratic system and its practice here in Kearny.

KOTW is a town message board. I can easily see how it could be used as an important vehicle for democracy. Jim Mangin and I didn’t agree on the problems facing Kearny or their best solutions, but for a brief time we did engage in a discussion, right here at KOTW. This forum is available to everyone. There are no time limits and hardly ever is anyone kept from expressing a point of view. This is what the internet makes possible; in turn, that makes greater democratic participation in the life of the community possible.

If the people of Kearny have ideas for improving our town, then let's post them here. If a few good ideas appear on this forum, people will start paying more attention. Members of the town council and the mayor will soon get word of the interest being generated on KOTW. With the right attitudes within the community, KOTW could easily become an important vehicle for improving our town. But that's never going to happen if the people of Kearny don't open themselves to what a forum like this makes possible.

That doesn’t mean that every idea will be a good one. Out of fifty ideas, maybe one would eventually be implemented. But that’s not failure, that’s success.

That said, I’m inclined to think that the relative absence of ideas for improvements in Kearny mainly reflects the competence of the people in charge here. It’s possible, and I think likely, that our town officials are doing a good job on the whole, and that there aren’t any pressing issues in town whose handling requires a marked change in direction. But I could be wrong. Let’s use this forum as a vehicle for getting ideas on the table and discussing them. KOTW could be an important and vital vehicle for making democracy work, but it will only play that role if we take advantage of it, and actually try to make a contribution here and use KOTW to a productive end.

The essence of democracy is that the people get to decide. We can make a forum like this anything we want it to be. All it takes is a positive attitude and a little imagination.

[Guest Loki]

In the topic on how dictatorships are created (which quickly turned into another mud-fight over the pledge of allegiance), the unknown person who posts as “Lincoln Logger” criticized my suggestion that KOTW could be a vehicle for a democracy, writing: “The last I looked Kearny on the WEB was not a town hall meeting. It is nothing more than a blog for people to express what they feel, good or bad. This is not a newspaper the last I looked?” Those remarks reflect an unfortunate lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the democratic system and its practice here in Kearny.

KOTW is a town message board. I can easily see how it could be used as an important vehicle for democracy. Jim Mangin and I didn’t agree on the problems facing Kearny or their best solutions, but for a brief time we did engage in a discussion, right here at KOTW. This forum is available to everyone. There are no time limits and hardly ever is anyone kept from expressing a point of view. This is what the internet makes possible; in turn, that makes greater democratic participation in the life of the community possible.

If the people of Kearny have ideas for improving our town, then let's post them here. If a few good ideas appear on this forum, people will start paying more attention. Members of the town council and the mayor will soon get word of the interest being generated on KOTW. With the right attitudes within the community, KOTW could easily become an important vehicle for improving our town. But that's never going to happen if the people of Kearny don't open themselves to what a forum like this makes possible.

That doesn’t mean that every idea will be a good one. Out of fifty ideas, maybe one would eventually be implemented. But that’s not failure, that’s success.

That said, I’m inclined to think that the relative absence of ideas for improvements in Kearny mainly reflects the competence of the people in charge here. It’s possible, and I think likely, that our town officials are doing a good job on the whole, and that there aren’t any pressing issues in town whose handling requires a marked change in direction. But I could be wrong. Let’s use this forum as a vehicle for getting ideas on the table and discussing them. KOTW could be an important and vital vehicle for making democracy work, but it will only play that role if we take advantage of it, and actually try to make a contribution here and use KOTW to a productive end.

The essence of democracy is that the people get to decide. We can make a forum like this anything we want it to be. All it takes is a positive attitude and a little imagination.

Have to disagree Paul. I think the lack of discussion on Town issues is indicative of the current "aristocracy"; constructive debate, even amongst the Council, is long gone. People are disillusioned. Not all, but a lot have resigned themselves to the fact that while good ideas can be exchanged here, little of it is considered by the M&C; they have their own agenda.

As for well run, it is my opinion that the town spends entirely too much on useless litigation. Sorry, no specifics, but I'm often reminded of the phrase "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime."

Happy Turkey Day to all.

[Guest Guest]

In the topic on how dictatorships are created (which quickly turned into another mud-fight over the pledge of allegiance), the unknown person who posts as “Lincoln Logger” criticized my suggestion that KOTW could be a vehicle for a democracy, writing: “The last I looked Kearny on the WEB was not a town hall meeting. It is nothing more than a blog for people to express what they feel, good or bad. This is not a newspaper the last I looked?” Those remarks reflect an unfortunate lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the democratic system and its practice here in Kearny.

KOTW is a town message board. I can easily see how it could be used as an important vehicle for democracy. Jim Mangin and I didn’t agree on the problems facing Kearny or their best solutions, but for a brief time we did engage in a discussion, right here at KOTW. This forum is available to everyone. There are no time limits and hardly ever is anyone kept from expressing a point of view. This is what the internet makes possible; in turn, that makes greater democratic participation in the life of the community possible.

If the people of Kearny have ideas for improving our town, then let's post them here. If a few good ideas appear on this forum, people will start paying more attention. Members of the town council and the mayor will soon get word of the interest being generated on KOTW. With the right attitudes within the community, KOTW could easily become an important vehicle for improving our town. But that's never going to happen if the people of Kearny don't open themselves to what a forum like this makes possible.

That doesn’t mean that every idea will be a good one. Out of fifty ideas, maybe one would eventually be implemented. But that’s not failure, that’s success.

That said, I’m inclined to think that the relative absence of ideas for improvements in Kearny mainly reflects the competence of the people in charge here. It’s possible, and I think likely, that our town officials are doing a good job on the whole, and that there aren’t any pressing issues in town whose handling requires a marked change in direction. But I could be wrong. Let’s use this forum as a vehicle for getting ideas on the table and discussing them. KOTW could be an important and vital vehicle for making democracy work, but it will only play that role if we take advantage of it, and actually try to make a contribution here and use KOTW to a productive end.

The essence of democracy is that the people get to decide. We can make a forum like this anything we want it to be. All it takes is a positive attitude and a little imagination.

If you really want to improve Kearny, take your positive attitude and apologize to the KHS teacher who you conspired with your son to ambush.

[Guest Paul]

Have to disagree Paul. I think the lack of discussion on Town issues is indicative of the current "aristocracy"; constructive debate, even amongst the Council, is long gone. People are disillusioned. Not all, but a lot have resigned themselves to the fact that while good ideas can be exchanged here, little of it is considered by the M&C; they have their own agenda.

As for well run, it is my opinion that the town spends entirely too much on useless litigation. Sorry, no specifics, but I'm often reminded of the phrase "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime."

Happy Turkey Day to all.

How does an "aristocracy" like that rise to power, and then hold it in a town like this? I can't see any way that a majority holds power in a town like Kearny except by the will of the people. It's not a monied class, so the word "aristocracy" doesn't strictly apply. Where is the departure from democratic principles? I don't see it.

[Guest Guest]

If you really want to improve Kearny, take your positive attitude and apologize to the KHS teacher who you conspired with your son to ambush.

Yeah right, apologize for calling out misconduct. Still got his footprints on your arse, I see. Time to get over it. The only thing he should apologize for is not trying to have Paszkiewicz fired.

[Guest Keith]

If you really want to improve Kearny, take your positive attitude and apologize to the KHS teacher who you conspired with your son to ambush.

That teacher deserved what he got.

[Guest Guest]

Have to disagree Paul. I think the lack of discussion on Town issues is indicative of the current "aristocracy"; constructive debate, even amongst the Council, is long gone. People are disillusioned. Not all, but a lot have resigned themselves to the fact that while good ideas can be exchanged here, little of it is considered by the M&C; they have their own agenda.

As for well run, it is my opinion that the town spends entirely too much on useless litigation. Sorry, no specifics, but I'm often reminded of the phrase "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime."

Happy Turkey Day to all.

Have to disagree, Jim. In order for good ideas to be posted, someone has to have one. And if you're going to criticize something effectively, you have to be specific.

[Guest Guest]

That teacher deserved what he got.

No, the teacher deserved to be fired. What he got was a very big break because of a union that gives him tenure he doesn't believe in (except of course for himself).

[Bern]

That teacher deserved what he got.

I don't think he got enough. A teacher like that shouldn't be teaching.

[Guest Loki]

Have to disagree, Jim. In order for good ideas to be posted, someone has to have one. And if you're going to criticize something effectively, you have to be specific.

Okay, I'll bite, who is Jim?

[Guest Lincoln Logger]

Have to disagree Paul. I think the lack of discussion on Town issues is indicative of the current "aristocracy"; constructive debate, even amongst the Council, is long gone. People are disillusioned. Not all, but a lot have resigned themselves to the fact that while good ideas can be exchanged here, little of it is considered by the M&C; they have their own agenda.

As for well run, it is my opinion that the town spends entirely too much on useless litigation. Sorry, no specifics, but I'm often reminded of the phrase "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime."

Happy Turkey Day to all.

Paul doesn't understand when you disagree with him. Keep reading all of his posts and you will eventually find this out for yourself. Thank you for the Happy Turkey Day. I hope yours was fine as well. Paul's ideals have only one view. They are his views and no one elses. When he does get around to respond to people, it is usually how he cannot understand why someone disagrees with him. Oh then he goes on bragging about junior over and over. But Paul is our towns burden and we just have to deal with it.

[Guest Guest]

Paul doesn't understand when you disagree with him. Keep reading all of his posts and you will eventually find this out for yourself. Thank you for the Happy Turkey Day. I hope yours was fine as well. Paul's ideals have only one view. They are his views and no one elses. When he does get around to respond to people, it is usually how he cannot understand why someone disagrees with him. Oh then he goes on bragging about junior over and over. But Paul is our towns burden and we just have to deal with it.

That's not true. His questions were quite good. He is one of the few people here who always advances the argument, maybe the only one who does it consistently.

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...ost&p=93204

The only time he talks about Matthew now is when the subject is brought up. Obviously, you didn't like the outcome of that incident.

[Guest 2smart4u]

That's not true. His questions were quite good. He is one of the few people here who always advances the argument, maybe the only one who does it consistently.

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php...ost&p=93204

The only time he talks about Matthew now is when the subject is brought up. Obviously, you didn't like the outcome of that incident.

Here's another one of Paul's "Guest" minions defending their leader.

[Guest Guest]

Here's another one of Paul's "Guest" minions defending their leader.

You never actually say anything. You're just a nasty little person with nothing in his quiver except to criticize others. I'm very sorry that you had such a poor upbringing, but whatever happened to you, you're going to have to get over it.

Or you can continue to be a jerk for the rest of your life.

[Guest 2smart4u]

You never actually say anything. You're just a nasty little person with nothing in his quiver except to criticize others. I'm very sorry that you had such a poor upbringing, but whatever happened to you, you're going to have to get over it.

Or you can continue to be a jerk for the rest of your life.

Yet another minion.

[Guest Guest]

In the topic on how dictatorships are created (which quickly turned into another mud-fight over the pledge of allegiance), the unknown person who posts as “Lincoln Logger” criticized my suggestion that KOTW could be a vehicle for a democracy, writing: “The last I looked Kearny on the WEB was not a town hall meeting. It is nothing more than a blog for people to express what they feel, good or bad. This is not a newspaper the last I looked?” Those remarks reflect an unfortunate lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the democratic system and its practice here in Kearny.

KOTW is a town message board. I can easily see how it could be used as an important vehicle for democracy. Jim Mangin and I didn’t agree on the problems facing Kearny or their best solutions, but for a brief time we did engage in a discussion, right here at KOTW. This forum is available to everyone. There are no time limits and hardly ever is anyone kept from expressing a point of view. This is what the internet makes possible; in turn, that makes greater democratic participation in the life of the community possible.

If the people of Kearny have ideas for improving our town, then let's post them here. If a few good ideas appear on this forum, people will start paying more attention. Members of the town council and the mayor will soon get word of the interest being generated on KOTW. With the right attitudes within the community, KOTW could easily become an important vehicle for improving our town. But that's never going to happen if the people of Kearny don't open themselves to what a forum like this makes possible.

That doesn’t mean that every idea will be a good one. Out of fifty ideas, maybe one would eventually be implemented. But that’s not failure, that’s success.

That said, I’m inclined to think that the relative absence of ideas for improvements in Kearny mainly reflects the competence of the people in charge here. It’s possible, and I think likely, that our town officials are doing a good job on the whole, and that there aren’t any pressing issues in town whose handling requires a marked change in direction. But I could be wrong. Let’s use this forum as a vehicle for getting ideas on the table and discussing them. KOTW could be an important and vital vehicle for making democracy work, but it will only play that role if we take advantage of it, and actually try to make a contribution here and use KOTW to a productive end.

The essence of democracy is that the people get to decide. We can make a forum like this anything we want it to be. All it takes is a positive attitude and a little imagination.

Out of 13 posts on this subject, three of them (1, 2 and 4) are an attempt to discuss the issue. The rest of them add nothing to the discussion. Post 1 is above. Here are 2 and 4:

(2) Have to disagree Paul. I think the lack of discussion on Town issues is indicative of the current "aristocracy"; constructive debate, even amongst the Council, is long gone. People are disillusioned. Not all, but a lot have resigned themselves to the fact that while good ideas can be exchanged here, little of it is considered by the M&C; they have their own agenda.

As for well run, it is my opinion that the town spends entirely too much on useless litigation. Sorry, no specifics, but I'm often reminded of the phrase "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime."

Happy Turkey Day to all.

(4) How does an "aristocracy" like that rise to power, and then hold it in a town like this? I can't see any way that a majority holds power in a town like Kearny except by the will of the people. It's not a monied class, so the word "aristocracy" doesn't strictly apply. Where is the departure from democratic principles? I don't see it.

I wasn’t aware of the town being involved in litigation. Can anyone provide any details?

Also, why would anyone just give up on a town of 40,000 people? If you have a good idea to improve the town, there’s no reason why people wouldn’t listen to it. It’s in their best interests. There may be reasons outside of the mayor’s and the town’s control why certain things cannot be done, but that can’t be blamed on town politics.

[Guest Guest]

You never actually say anything. You're just a nasty little person with nothing in his quiver except to criticize others. I'm very sorry that you had such a poor upbringing, but whatever happened to you, you're going to have to get over it.

Or you can continue to be a jerk for the rest of your life.

"nasty little person", "poor upbringing", "continue to be a jerk". Is this what you mean "to criticize others?.

[Guest Better in Kearny]

In the topic on how dictatorships are created (which quickly turned into another mud-fight over the pledge of allegiance), the unknown person who posts as “Lincoln Logger” criticized my suggestion that KOTW could be a vehicle for a democracy, writing: “The last I looked Kearny on the WEB was not a town hall meeting. It is nothing more than a blog for people to express what they feel, good or bad. This is not a newspaper the last I looked?” Those remarks reflect an unfortunate lack of imagination and a lack of faith in the democratic system and its practice here in Kearny.

KOTW is a town message board. I can easily see how it could be used as an important vehicle for democracy. Jim Mangin and I didn’t agree on the problems facing Kearny or their best solutions, but for a brief time we did engage in a discussion, right here at KOTW. This forum is available to everyone. There are no time limits and hardly ever is anyone kept from expressing a point of view. This is what the internet makes possible; in turn, that makes greater democratic participation in the life of the community possible.

If the people of Kearny have ideas for improving our town, then let's post them here. If a few good ideas appear on this forum, people will start paying more attention. Members of the town council and the mayor will soon get word of the interest being generated on KOTW. With the right attitudes within the community, KOTW could easily become an important vehicle for improving our town. But that's never going to happen if the people of Kearny don't open themselves to what a forum like this makes possible.

That doesn’t mean that every idea will be a good one. Out of fifty ideas, maybe one would eventually be implemented. But that’s not failure, that’s success.

That said, I’m inclined to think that the relative absence of ideas for improvements in Kearny mainly reflects the competence of the people in charge here. It’s possible, and I think likely, that our town officials are doing a good job on the whole, and that there aren’t any pressing issues in town whose handling requires a marked change in direction. But I could be wrong. Let’s use this forum as a vehicle for getting ideas on the table and discussing them. KOTW could be an important and vital vehicle for making democracy work, but it will only play that role if we take advantage of it, and actually try to make a contribution here and use KOTW to a productive end.

The essence of democracy is that the people get to decide. We can make a forum like this anything we want it to be. All it takes is a positive attitude and a little imagination.

Then why not start talking about this town instead of all this “mud slinging” about the constitution. Let the people in Washington discuss the Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance and stop all this nonsense. What it appears you are causing issues that you want people to challenge you about? I am all in favor of change for Kearny as well. It, as in Kearny, has become so much more of a melting pot than it was when I was growing up in it. Might I suggest you go one step further than this website and actually have a meeting to discuss what might be done to improve this town. Leave the Constitution and the Pledge to the politicians and gets get some serious work down around here. But is always seems to fall back to politics.

[Guest Guest]

Yet another minion.

The same idiot.

[Guest Guest]

Then why not start talking about this town instead of all this “mud slinging” about the constitution. Let the people in Washington discuss the Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance and stop all this nonsense. What it appears you are causing issues that you want people to challenge you about? I am all in favor of change for Kearny as well. It, as in Kearny, has become so much more of a melting pot than it was when I was growing up in it. Might I suggest you go one step further than this website and actually have a meeting to discuss what might be done to improve this town. Leave the Constitution and the Pledge to the politicians and gets get some serious work down around here. But is always seems to fall back to politics.

The Constitution is important, and so are local issues. There is no reason why someone should have to choose between them. We can be concerned and act on both.

If you want a town meeting, put one together. Don't make everything an in-your-face challenge to one person. You do it.

[Guest Paul]

Then why not start talking about this town instead of all this “mud slinging” about the constitution. Let the people in Washington discuss the Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance and stop all this nonsense. What it appears you are causing issues that you want people to challenge you about? I am all in favor of change for Kearny as well. It, as in Kearny, has become so much more of a melting pot than it was when I was growing up in it. Might I suggest you go one step further than this website and actually have a meeting to discuss what might be done to improve this town. Leave the Constitution and the Pledge to the politicians and gets get some serious work down around here. But is always seems to fall back to politics.

I was talking about the town. You're the one who brought up other issues. I'll address those comments in the recent pledge topic.

Regarding our town, where are you in this picture? If you are a Kearny citizen, you have as much power and as much right to bring up and address issues as I have. You pull together a meeting if you want one. I think the town is being well-run, and the proof of that is that every time someone starts complaining, no specific and better alternative is ever identified.

If you can convince me that a meeting would be useful, then I will help you make it happen. But if you go that way, you're going to have to give your name. Use this forum, or not, to have the discussion. It's up to you. As you can see, I haven't gone away. I just get sick of people complaining and not doing anything or even putting their name to their complaints. Don't like it if you don't want to like it, I'm going to keep calling you on it.

[Guest Guest]

The Constitution is important, and so are local issues. There is no reason why someone should have to choose between them. We can be concerned and act on both.

If you want a town meeting, put one together. Don't make everything an in-your-face challenge to one person. You do it.

Then all that will happen is the same name calling by both sides and nothing will get done. Same 'ol Kearny. Even the blowhards won't step up and all they will do is sit back and blog how this s**ks and my son that. Nothing ever gets done except raising global warming by producing hot air.

[Guest Better in Kearny]

I was talking about the town. You're the one who brought up other issues. I'll address those comments in the recent pledge topic.

Regarding our town, where are you in this picture? If you are a Kearny citizen, you have as much power and as much right to bring up and address issues as I have. You pull together a meeting if you want one. I think the town is being well-run, and the proof of that is that every time someone starts complaining, no specific and better alternative is ever identified.

If you can convince me that a meeting would be useful, then I will help you make it happen. But if you go that way, you're going to have to give your name. Use this forum, or not, to have the discussion. It's up to you. As you can see, I haven't gone away. I just get sick of people complaining and not doing anything or even putting their name to their complaints. Don't like it if you don't want to like it, I'm going to keep calling you on it.

So what you are sick of is exactly what you are doing. You get tired about people complaining and doing nothing of it. So do something good for once and stand up for what you believe in. And no pun intended toward the Pledge either.

Blogging here, your name or mine is irrelevant. It bothers you that you do not me, but I know you better than you think. That is your problem and you are going to have to get over it. Call me on it all you want too. You are still not going to produce countless blogs and do nothing about it. Whether you go away or not, I personally could not care. You provide humor here to many.

[Guest Paul]

So what you are sick of is exactly what you are doing. You get tired about people complaining and doing nothing of it. So do something good for once and stand up for what you believe in. And no pun intended toward the Pledge either.

Blogging here, your name or mine is irrelevant. It bothers you that you do not me, but I know you better than you think. That is your problem and you are going to have to get over it. Call me on it all you want too. You are still not going to produce countless blogs and do nothing about it. Whether you go away or not, I personally could not care. You provide humor here to many.

First, I never doubted that you know exactly who I am. It's not a question of getting over it, but a question of what kind of contribution you want to make. When you're trying to influence local politics, your name is relevant, not to mention that it's rude to have a discussion with someone and refuse to identify yourself.

Second, what I'm doing is not the same as what you're doing. I focus on issues that go the core of what a democracy is about under our Constitution. You suggested that I shift my focus to practical local governance issues. (That's not your call to make.) They're both important, but the methods of influencing them are entirely different. Attitudes are more central to my issues than they are to yours. I succeed just by getting people to think a little more openly, and maybe just by getting people to think about these things at all. You succeed only if you change the town's policies. That's why you can't succeed without specific ideas and a specific plan of action.

Third you can laugh all you want, but by getting the message out there and keeping it out there, I stand at least a chance of getting some people to think about it. Three years ago, I never expected to be doing this, but I just happened to have a son who was in the wrong/right place at the wrong/right time, depending on how you look at it, and drew a lot of attention. Maybe this is just a way of killing a little free time while I'm listening to Beethoven or Coltrane, but whatever it is, I enjoy it and hope it makes a positive difference.

[Guest Guest]

Then all that will happen is the same name calling by both sides and nothing will get done. Same 'ol Kearny. Even the blowhards won't step up and all they will do is sit back and blog how this s**ks and my son that. Nothing ever gets done except raising global warming by producing hot air.

Then you make a difference by saying something useful.