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The story doesn't make sense.


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Isn't it sad that this lonely atheist needs to plead his misguided viewpoint here on KOTW. It must be difficult for him on Sunday mornings to sit home by himself. As a Christian I'll pray for him.

You're doing what you always do, just putting words on a computer screen. They don't mean anything, because they don't have any connection to reality. You're just making up stories about people you don't even know. If I was a Christian, I certainly wouldn't want you speaking for me.

You do the same thing with your religion. You say you're a Christian but obviously, you don't believe the story about Jesus. If you did, you would have some answers that make sense. So like every other Christian, you accept the parts you like and reject that parts you don't like. It's a hard pill to swallow but if you're honest in looking at how people really deal with this religion, when they claim to believe in it, you see that they really don't.

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Isn't it sad that this lonely atheist needs to plead his misguided viewpoint here on KOTW. It must be difficult for him on Sunday mornings to sit home by himself. As a Christian I'll pray for him.

Ah, yes, your little fantasy world. And your sneering arrogance!

Are you sure you're not working for the other side? You're making their case.

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And still not one word to defend this preposterous narrative - you know, the one about how a loving god supposedly has a hell waiting for us, but he sends his son to save us from the hell he created. Oh but wait, we can only be saved if we accept the son as our lord and savior. And then this almighty and perfect god neglects to tell most of the world about it. So they have no chance to "accept" Jesus as their savior, because they've never heard of him.

It's a fairy tale. It was written by men in a particular time and place, and reflects all their limitations. It's not inspired, or inerrant. Accept the fact, since obviously you cannot defend this preposterous story, and move on.

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Guest Kearny Christian

I said a prayer for you this morning in church. I hope it does some good because you seem to be a very angry and unhappy person. But that's typical of atheists. These lost souls wander around hating and rejecting all that is good. I'm sure with prayer you'll begin to see the light.

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Guest Kearny Christian

Our resident atheist just can't stay away. He continues to post his same old, same old, same old nonsense. We get it. But as typical with these poor lost souls, they feel a need to lash out and vent their hopeless feelings. So I'll continue to pray for him and hope he talks to someone about his anger issues.

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I said a prayer for you this morning in church. I hope it does some good because you seem to be a very angry and unhappy person. But that's typical of atheists. These lost souls wander around hating and rejecting all that is good. I'm sure with prayer you'll begin to see the light.

There you go with your fantasies again. You don't know anything about me, and I don't hate anyone. I just don't like the fact that our culture signed onto a fairy tale. It has done tremendous damage. I reject and oppose what is bad. So I'm going to keep discussing this, and you can keep refusing to talk about the religion you claim to believe in. It's more than obvious from post #79 alone that the story you claim to believe in is ridiculous. No one else is defending it either. One person tried to say that archaeology supports the Bible, and even he completely ignored the obvious problems with the story itself.

The only thing you've said here is personal to me and the others who have posted here to agree with me. There are plenty of other people you could pray for, probably some people you know. If you want to keep on pretending that your comments aren't just the usual dodge so you won't have to think about what you claim to believe, that's your prerogative. But it's isn't responsible behavior. I grew up Christian. Honesty was one of the most important good lessons I learned. I kept that part of my Christian heritage, and I honor it. So I would never do what you're doing, making up a fantasy about someone else, then knocking down the fantasy as a symbolic knock on the other person. It's wrong, and you shouldn't do it either. So if what you write here is an example of what I may find in your church, that is yet another reason for me to pass on it.

When I became an adult, it became obvious to me that the story was just a story. I walked away in sadness, not in anger. I wanted for the story to be true. But it became obvious to me that it wasn't. I'm sick of people, like you, using other people and our governments to promote their religious beliefs. You may not agree with what I have to say but if you'll truly read it, you'll see that I'm not making up stories about you. I don't have to. I'm just telling the truth, and you know that I am. You make that obvious by your conduct.

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OK, let's talk about prayer. It can make people feel better. But that's not how Kearny not-much-of-a-Christian is using it. He's using it as a weapon to sneer and demean. But this forum isn't just about him, so let's get past that and think about it.

At its best, prayer doesn't make sense either. It's OK if you realize that you're just comforting yourself. But if you really think that you can sway an omnipotent, omniscient and perfect God, then you're not thinking about what "omnipotent, omniscient and perfect" means. Which is why I keep saying that no one really believes in that religion: many claim to believe in it but their actions belie their words. And actions speak louder than words. A perfect God would do what is best at all times. He wouldn't need someone's prayers to do what was best; and a prayer wouldn't sway him to do anything else. So if the God you claim to believe in exists, there's no point in praying, because he already has it all covered. And if he doesn't, your prayers are equally pointless, except to the extent they make you feel better. But the only way they can do that is if you're comforted by fantasies. I hate to put it so bluntly, but people who call themselves Christians keep forcing the issues.

OK, you want your religion in the public sphere. Here it is. Funny how, all of a sudden, none of the self-described Christians here wants to talk about it any more. They'll sneer at and demean me, and others, but they absolutely refuse to discuss the very thing they claim to believe in, as the most important thing in their lives. So obviously, it isn't the most important thing, because they don't follow it themselves. Which is why they won't talk about it. Deep down, they know they don't really believe in it. I've never met or seen anyone who did, not one single person. Because when push comes to shove, every Christian literalist makes compromises, which contradict what his religion says he should do. I'm not talking about the mistakes we all make. I'm talking about the compromises the Christian literalist makes with his religion when he runs into a conflict. Every single Christian literalist.

So OK, none of the Christian literalists on this site is willing to discuss the main narrative of their religion. How about addressing the absurdity of prayer, IF you take it literally as a means for making things happen that wouldn't happen without it.

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Our resident atheist just can't stay away. He continues to post his same old, same old, same old nonsense. We get it. But as typical with these poor lost souls, they feel a need to lash out and vent their hopeless feelings. So I'll continue to pray for him and hope he talks to someone about his anger issues.

You don't get it. If you did, you wouldn't act the way you're acting.

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I said a prayer for you this morning in church. I hope it does some good because you seem to be a very angry and unhappy person. But that's typical of atheists. These lost souls wander around hating and rejecting all that is good. I'm sure with prayer you'll begin to see the light.

Seems like you’re having trouble staying away yourself. Is the truth getting to you, at long last?

At least he says something.

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Our resident atheist just can't stay away. He continues to post his same old, same old, same old nonsense. We get it. But as typical with these poor lost souls, they feel a need to lash out and vent their hopeless feelings. So I'll continue to pray for him and hope he talks to someone about his anger issues.

Just think, in another month you can start whining about the holiday display at Town Hall again. Heck, why wait?

Of course, you could use this topic to spread the "good news." Problem is, you seem to recognize that it's not so good after all.

The story doesn't make sense to you either, does it.

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This topic was opened six months ago. People who call themselves Christians have come here to demean others but not one of them has denied the FACT that the central narrative of their religion makes no sense.

When you look at it honestly, it's obvious.

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I said a prayer for you this morning in church. I hope it does some good because you seem to be a very angry and unhappy person. But that's typical of atheists. These lost souls wander around hating and rejecting all that is good. I'm sure with prayer you'll begin to see the light.

Life must be very hard for you. American culture is changing in ways you don't like or understand. And though you haven't gotten it through your head yet, you can't just bully your way through with Christianity any more. Well, get used to it. It's not going to work.

Glad you're in a position to be able to look down on people you don't know and call them angry, unhappy and lost, though.

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This boy definitely has some issues. His anger is obvious, he must be a joy to live with. I wonder if he was baptized ?

Anything but discuss the obvious problems with the story.

We live in a sick culture. Many Christians say that, only they don't realize that one of the worst things about it is that its main religion is a fairy tale. Parts of it are terrific but other parts of it make no sense - not just factually but morally, ethically and spiritually. So of course, that's going to cause problems. It has, it does, and it will.

Pointing that out is not anger. It's just telling truth.

Acknowledge it, and let's move on.

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This boy definitely has some issues. His anger is obvious, he must be a joy to live with. I wonder if he was baptized ?

In quite a few animal species - wolf packs, for example - the majority will enforce its norms by ostracizing anyone who does not conform to certain group norms. We humans are animals, too, and social animals at that. You can see such behavior very clearly in humans, where people in the majority will try to beat back people who disagree with or challenge group norms. This usually comes from the right side of the political spectrum, because conservatives seem to think that conformity is an intrinsic value. It's not. It's a conditional value, because conformity can have good effects or bad effects, depending on what people are being asked to conform to. For example, in the American South, slavery was a social norm, and if you did anything to threaten or undermine it, you could threatened, intimidated, beaten or even killed.

Your religion is still very powerful, but a growing percentage of us are onto it. We're onto the story, and we're onto your tactics. They're not going to work on this forum, so you might as well give that up.

Spend your time more productively by discussing the issues presented by the opening post. If you're right, tell us why you're right. It's very telling that you refuse to do that, and instead resort to this lame attempt at intimidation.

Or your could just admit the obvious. The story doesn't make sense. It never happened.

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Let's recap and try again.

According to the God babblers who keep posting here, there is a God who sent his only divine Son to die on a cross so that those who believed in him may be saved from eternal torment. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The story is obviously a ridiculous fairy tale. I'm not saying it to be mean. I'm saying it because the God babblers keep forcing their religion on us, and - along with many others - I'm sick of it. They want to talk about their religion, and push it on everyone. OK, then let's talk about it. If it wasn't for their incessant pushing, I wouldn't do this.

In the first place, Christians can't even get their story straight. Is it a lake of fire and eternal torment, or merely death and annihilation? Assuming the former, God would be a sociopath and a psychopath, making the story a horrid fairy tale. Assuming the latter, the story is merely a fairy tale.

Second, assume the story to be true. According to the story, God offered himself as a sacrifice, out of love, for each and every person on earth. The offer, per John 3:16, was extended to the whole world, and salvation is granted to everyone "who believes in him." You can't believe in someone you've never heard of. If the story was true, every person who ever lived, since Jesus died, would have known about the story, thereby having the chance to believe. Yet when white Europeans encountered native peoples all over the world, in remote areas, from the late medieval period into the 20th century, they had never heard the story. They had no chance to believe. But according to the fairy tale, their salvation was conditioned on belief. Surely God would have the power to send an angel to tell everyone about the most important thing he ever did, the thing that would offer them salvation. Yet somehow, most of the world never heard the story. This is proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the story is a cultural artifact, born of a particular time and place. It is not universal. It isn't true. It never happened. If it had happened, everyone who ever lived since Jesus died would have heard about it. God would have made sure of that - if that God existed.

I cannot prove whether there is or is not a God. But the use of a little reason proves beyond any doubt that this version of God is a fairy tale.

You wanted to discuss your religion, God babblers. You want an officially sanctioned Christmas tree, not just a holiday tree. In only seven months, you can start whining about that again. Again, I'm not saying this, in this forum, for any other reason except that you keep shoving your religion down our throats. Here's your chance to show everyone why the things written here are not true. You wanted to discuss your religion. Go ahead.

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Guest Kearny Christian

No, actually life is very good to me. I'm successful and happy and I credit much of that to my Christian heritage. Part of being Christian is reaching out and trying to help others in need. It appears that you are clearly in need of help. Your angry posts are symptoms of something larger, something that I can't define for you. I can only pray for you and hope you'll seek help from a professional.

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This boy definitely has some issues. His anger is obvious, he must be a joy to live with. I wonder if he was baptized ?

You're so pathetic, and so transparent. It's not about any one person. But you'll do anything to deflect attention away from something you obviously do not wish to discuss. So you make up a story about someone you don't even know, and that satisfies you. You may even have yourself convinced that you're nice and safe in your little cocoon. As I said, it's pathetic.

So how can Christianity be true?

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Life must be very hard for you. American culture is changing in ways you don't like or understand. And though you haven't gotten it through your head yet, you can't just bully your way through with Christianity any more. Well, get used to it. It's not going to work.

Glad you're in a position to be able to look down on people you don't know and call them angry, unhappy and lost, though.

Pot, Meet Kettle.

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No, actually life is very good to me. I'm successful and happy and I credit much of that to my Christian heritage. Part of being Christian is reaching out and trying to help others in need. It appears that you are clearly in need of help. Your angry posts are symptoms of something larger, something that I can't define for you. I can only pray for you and hope you'll seek help from a professional.

Well, then, how about taking an honest look at this story you claim to believe. It's really quite amazing that you feel you have to make this personal. This topic is about the central narrative of Christianity. If you really believe it, then you should be willing to discuss it.

As for our respective behavior on this forum, I said some very tough things about the Christian narrative. Apparently this finally drew your attention, but you have yet to say anything, except to make personal attacks on people you don't even know.

The narrative doesn't make sense. I've told you why. Tell me, and tell everyone, why I am incorrect.

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No, actually life is very good to me. I'm successful and happy and I credit much of that to my Christian heritage. Part of being Christian is reaching out and trying to help others in need. It appears that you are clearly in need of help. Your angry posts are symptoms of something larger, something that I can't define for you. I can only pray for you and hope you'll seek help from a professional.

Wow! You think you're doing a good job representing Christianity here, making judgments about people and telling them they need professional help? I'd like to know where in the Bible you got that one. I'd also like to know how many Christian ministers would agree with your behavior here. My guess is, not very many.

He must be starting to get to you. Unfortunately, that's not the same thing as getting through to you.

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Let's try Bible study. Kearny Christian should like that.

And let's pick a favorite verse. In fact, let's pick what is probably the most popular verse in the Bible. It's the one you see posted on cards at football games and political events.

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Wow! Sounds great, right? Well yes, if you overlook that "perish" business. There's a difference between perishing, and suffering in eternal torment but let's overlook that for now. According to this passage, God is offering salvation. Let's take it a step at a time.

"What is God doing?" He is offering salvation.

"To whom is he offering salvation?" To the whole world, everyone.

"Why is he doing that?" Because he loves us. Every person who ever lived is God's child. He loves us all.

"Do I, or does anyone, have to do anything to be saved?" All you have to do is believe. Just accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and you will live with God forever, in paradise.

"So this is a very important biblical passage." Aside from creating us in the first place, this offer of salvation is what God is all about. This is God proving his love for us - as if he should ever have to do that.

"But what about all the people who never heard of Jesus?"

There is no good answer to that question. If you say that they cannot be saved, because they cannot accept or believe in someone they've never heard of, that makes no sense. If you say that they are saved anyway, because God makes exceptions for people who never heard of him, then the whole melodrama about a death and resurrection was never necessary in the first place. There's no escaping the contradiction. You can't say "the only way to the Father is through his Son, Jesus the Christ," and then start making exceptions when you think you need one to salvage the narrative.

This isn't being mean, or angry. It's just being honest. When you take the story literally, it does not make sense.

Kearny Christian, or anyone else: what say you?

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