What Has Happened To Our Country?

[speedy1]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

[Guest 2smart4u]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

Vermont is the east coast version of San Francisco. A bunch of loony left secularists have taken over the government in Vermont and are determined to remove God from the lives of the citizens there. The residents of Vermont elected these atheist loonys and it won't get any better until the people wake up and kick them all out.

[Guest Guest]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

Judging from your note, Speedy, what has happened to our country is that people like you have lost sight of what's really important. There would be nothing wrong with a pledge of allegiance if it didn’t pressure people who don’t believe in certain parts of it, or who don't believe their allegiance is to a flag, or whose religion prevents them from saying a pledge, to say things they don’t believe or do things that are against their beliefs. It’s not right. The Woodbury school system came up with a solution that allows every child to say the pledge freely, but doesn’t make it an in-class practice. Students who wish to participate must go to the gymnasium, where the pledge is recited. It’s a good solution. The school district is right. Doing it their way makes the pledge a voluntary act. That's the only way it really means anything.

This didn’t satisfy one of the people pushing the pledge. According to one news account: “Tedesco, 55, a retired U.S. Marine Corps major, and others who signed his petitions didn't like that solution, calling it disruptive to routine and inappropriate because it put young children in the position of having to decide between pre-class play time and leaving the classroom to say the Pledge.”

Yeah, boy, that pledge must really be important. The kids couldn’t decide whether to take a minute away from play time to recite it. Tells you how much they're getting out of it.

And boy, you just can’t trust those kids to make decisions. Let’s just make them all say it, like we used to do. That way they won’t have to think about what they’re saying or what it means. Every good American knows that our soldiers died for our kids’ right to be forced to spend thirteen years reciting words they don’t understand. Citizens don't have to think. They should just do as they're told.

According to another report, “’The whole thing is tearing our community apart,’ said Heather Lanphear, 39, the mother of a first-grade student.” Our country did just fine for more than a century without a pledge of allegiance. It's OK if it's freely done. But frankly, when you make this much fuss over it, we’d be better off without it.

[Guest Guest]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

Look, Paul has explained numerous times that the pledge, flag, national athem, etc. are meaningless. Now get over it.

[Bern]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

The people in Europe are laughing at us because there are too many in this country who think like you and make dopey comments, like you just did.

[Guest Guest]

I just read in todays Star Ledger, that a school in Woodbury,VT has taken the Pledge of Allegience out of the classroom, and those students that want to say it must go to the second floor to another room ansd recite it. How dare people demand that the Pledge be taken out of school!!! I am an American, my fore fathers wrote that pledge as a confirmant that we are one nation. My father, brother and son fought and are still fihghting for our freedom. I resent this action and wish that I had the ability to do something about it! Dosen't anyone care anymore about the history that was made with that pledge? Well I do, I have friends in Europe that say " all f the other countries in the world are laughing at us, that we are not one nation, and that we mock our past heros by what we say & do. I just had to get this off my chest, and I hope that some of you who have children in Iraq and Afgahanastan agree with like I do.

Welcome to the Ununited States of Paul LaClair. And you wonder why this country is in the shape we are in. It only takes a few radicals to upend all the good that people have worked for 100's of years to develop. You don't have to salute anything. You don't have to respect anyone. It's all about Paul. Escalate that 100 fold and there you have a country in termoil.

[Guest Guest]

The people in Europe are laughing at us because there are too many in this country who think like you and make dopey comments, like you just did.

I doubt that they are laughing anymore. They are finding out as this country goes, so goes Europe.

[Guest Guest]

Welcome to the Ununited States of Paul LaClair. And you wonder why this country is in the shape we are in. It only takes a few radicals to upend all the good that people have worked for 100's of years to develop. You don't have to salute anything. You don't have to respect anyone. It's all about Paul. Escalate that 100 fold and there you have a country in termoil.

Not so fast, cowboy. You have it backwards. People who insist that everyone recite a pledge are the ones who do not respect others. Other developed, democratic countries don't do it. We didn't even do it for more than a century. Why do you insist on forcing this on everyone?

[Guest Guest]

Vermont is the east coast version of San Francisco. A bunch of loony left secularists have taken over the government in Vermont and are determined to remove God from the lives of the citizens there. The residents of Vermont elected these atheist loonys and it won't get any better until the people wake up and kick them all out.

Goodbye God and good riddence!

[Bern]

Welcome to the Ununited States of Paul LaClair. And you wonder why this country is in the shape we are in. It only takes a few radicals to upend all the good that people have worked for 100's of years to develop. You don't have to salute anything. You don't have to respect anyone. It's all about Paul. Escalate that 100 fold and there you have a country in termoil.

You could make up for the lack of saluting.

Form a salute brigade to make up for all those radicals who don't salute. Everytime you pass the national flag, in a mall, a government building, a store, anywhere, you and your brigade members can stop and salute.

Have your members record their salutes on their cell phones and whne they report back give them commendation stars:

10 salutes - yellow star

50 salutes - purple star

100 salues - red star

500 salutes - white star

1000 salues - blue star

Schoolchildren belonging to schools that perform this rite can automatically earn one salute per school day.

How much fun you will all have at your monthly salute brigade meetings when you compare stars.

[Guest 2smart4u]

Look, Paul has explained numerous times that the pledge, flag, national athem, etc. are meaningless. Now get over it.

"Paul has explained" ? Is that supposed to mean something.

[Guest Guest]

When is the last time actual Civics were taught in Public School?? Name ONE School in Kearny that teaches it's students who the Town's Namesake is, what he Did, or WHY he was famous. It's pretty bad that people in Kearny Nebraska take General Phil to heart more than they did here in what Was his Home.

[Guest Guest]

What horrible thing do you imagine will happen to our country if we don't have kids say the pledge anymore? Be specific, please.

[Guest Guest]

What horrible thing do you imagine will happen to our country if we don't have kids say the pledge anymore? Be specific, please.

Oh, it won't happen right away, it will take a few generations. I've raised four children. All of my children were raised with religion. My thinking was, after they are adults they can make own decisions, and they have. They also can make intelligent, adult decisions about what they want to do. My kids didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. When I was a kid, I didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. Today, I thank my parents for giving to me a faith in something, because as I live my life I need that faith and love that I receive when I attend church. Same thing for having respect for our country and the people that serve it. It needs to be taught to our young ones. They have no clue as to why they are doing what they are doing, but as they come into adulthood they will understand. The breakdown of the family and values are well evident in our society. Babies being killed by grown men who don't want to hear them cry, kids with no respect for authority of any kind. People dropping their teenagers off in hospitals in Kansas under the safe haven law. Whaaaat? If things get too hard in a job, or a marriage they can't stay & work it out. They take the easy way out. So, what I see is eventually a society with no morals or concience, back to the days of pirates and thieves and gangs who stalk the streets and take what they want. I think that's pretty horrible.

[Guest Guest]

I doubt that they are laughing anymore. They are finding out as this country goes, so goes Europe.

Yes, well that only proves that the pledge of allegiance destroys the whole world.

Don't blame me, it's your logic - if you call it that.

[Guest Paul]

Oh, it won't happen right away, it will take a few generations. I've raised four children. All of my children were raised with religion. My thinking was, after they are adults they can make own decisions, and they have. They also can make intelligent, adult decisions about what they want to do. My kids didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. When I was a kid, I didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. Today, I thank my parents for giving to me a faith in something, because as I live my life I need that faith and love that I receive when I attend church. Same thing for having respect for our country and the people that serve it. It needs to be taught to our young ones. They have no clue as to why they are doing what they are doing, but as they come into adulthood they will understand. The breakdown of the family and values are well evident in our society. Babies being killed by grown men who don't want to hear them cry, kids with no respect for authority of any kind. People dropping their teenagers off in hospitals in Kansas under the safe haven law. Whaaaat? If things get too hard in a job, or a marriage they can't stay & work it out. They take the easy way out. So, what I see is eventually a society with no morals or concience, back to the days of pirates and thieves and gangs who stalk the streets and take what they want. I think that's pretty horrible.

Are you saying that a person can't live a responsible life without going to church?

Are you saying that a person can't be a good citizen without reciting a pledge?

Aren't our lives measured more by what we do than by what we say?

[Guest Paul]

What has happened to our country? That is a very good question.

In 1943, during the height of World War II, the legendary popular-American painter Norman Rockwell painted his vision of “freedom of speech.” http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rockwel...speech.jpg.html

To me, this painting illustrates the practice of democracy. The man isn’t ranting, he’s just talking. The people around him aren’t cheering or shouting him down, they’re just listening, openly and with interest and respect.

Can any of the people whose blood boils every time I write something actually summarize my point of view? If you can’t, then you haven’t heard it. By all means, criticize my argument. But stop the name-calling and the taunting. That’s not democracy.

I have expressed my views on the pledge of allegiance many times. A pledge like this is a fine idea, but it should be something every good American can recite and it shouldn’t be forced on anyone. The true test of citizenship is what we do for our country and our community, not just what we say. That is my vision of a better America.

[Bern]

Not so fast, cowboy. You have it backwards. People who insist that everyone recite a pledge are the ones who do not respect others. Other developed, democratic countries don't do it. We didn't even do it for more than a century. Why do you insist on forcing this on everyone?

One could argue that our country was healthier, more united, grew faster before the pledge.

[Guest Guest]

One could argue that our country was healthier, more united, grew faster before the pledge.

Yes, and the people were also more disciplined. Those were the people who cleared the frontier.

[Guest Guest]

Oh, it won't happen right away, it will take a few generations. I've raised four children. All of my children were raised with religion. My thinking was, after they are adults they can make own decisions, and they have. They also can make intelligent, adult decisions about what they want to do. My kids didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. When I was a kid, I didn't want to get out of bed to go to church on Sunday. Today, I thank my parents for giving to me a faith in something, because as I live my life I need that faith and love that I receive when I attend church. Same thing for having respect for our country and the people that serve it. It needs to be taught to our young ones. They have no clue as to why they are doing what they are doing, but as they come into adulthood they will understand. The breakdown of the family and values are well evident in our society. Babies being killed by grown men who don't want to hear them cry, kids with no respect for authority of any kind. People dropping their teenagers off in hospitals in Kansas under the safe haven law. Whaaaat? If things get too hard in a job, or a marriage they can't stay & work it out. They take the easy way out. So, what I see is eventually a society with no morals or concience, back to the days of pirates and thieves and gangs who stalk the streets and take what they want. I think that's pretty horrible.

So if these horrible things are happening now, maybe the Pledge of Allegiance is what caused them to happen. You can't say it's because American kids in aren't saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school, because they are.

You pick one thing out of thin air as the cause of all the world's problems, and completely overlook the fact that all these bad things are happening now, with kids reciting the Pledge. There's no logic to your argument. It makes no sense.

[Guest Guest]

Are you saying that a person can't live a responsible life without going to church?

Are you saying that a person can't be a good citizen without reciting a pledge?

Aren't our lives measured more by what we do than by what we say?

No, I'm saying I can't live a responsible life without going to church and my parents taught me about God. Now as an adult I choose to go to church because it keeps me grounded. I say the pledge to honor all our service people and veterans who have put their lives on the line for our way of life. Our lives are measured by what we leave when we die. But our children have to be taught because they don't know anything when they come to us. Just like we teach them not to lie, not to hurt other people or animals, not to steal, we are also obligated to give them direction so they will be able to make up their own minds when they become adults. You are a good example. You're children think the way you do because you taught them that and by following what you taught them to think their lives have been impacted by that. My children have been taught the same things yours have, but in a different way. My children have been taught not to attack, but to change the things they don't like without hurting other people as your child did. In Vermont, I think the children who don't want to say the pledge should go to the gym and they will do that and think its great because they are getting out of class because children think only in the moment. Most have never met a veteran with no arms or legs, and most have never had a family member die due to war.

[Bern]

Yes, and the people were also more disciplined. Those were the people who cleared the frontier.

For sure. And no one can accuse them of bring unpatriotic.

California furnished the Golden Spike. Governor Tuttle of Nevada furnished one of silver. General Stanford [Governor Safford?] presented one of gold, silver, and iron from Arizona. The last tie was of California laurel.

When they came to drive the last spike, Governor Stanford, president of the Central Pacific, took the sledge, and the first time he struck he missed the spike and hit the rail.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/goldenspike.htm

Notice the photograph of this momentous event (from the above link). No flags and standing around citing a pledge. They just got things done.

[Bern]

We now adjust reality to meet the needs of the flag worshippers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7738342.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_...3024/html/1.stm

[Guest Lincoln Logger]

Are you saying that a person can't live a responsible life without going to church?

Are you saying that a person can't be a good citizen without reciting a pledge?

Aren't our lives measured more by what we do than by what we say?

When it comes to Paul LaClair the answer is yes; since you promote yourself as somewhat educated, and having been brought up with religious beliefs, and rejected them. Yet you tell people that they do not need religion yet their life because it didn’t work for you. Your religion and all that you have done and learned throughout your life, Catholic or otherwise is who you are today. It is what and who you are is based on your upbringing.

If you think your life is measured by what you do and well, what the hell, "to hell with everyone else", is exactly the problem that is going on with this country today. Yet you think because you made it as a so called lawyer your life is complete and don't care whose cornflakes you have to pee in to get your results. So that is your idea of success. Yet you think Obama is going to make a different and try to compare him to Kennedy. It was a different time then and that will never repeat no matter how much Kool-Aid you drink.

The words go from the Wizard of Oz. "A heart is not judged by how much you love; but by how much you are loved by others." The same goes true with our lives and how we are judged. And yet you stay ignorant to the fact that your measurement of how you are measured now is lower then President Bush today. Maybe this world needs a little kindness, maybe a little religion in each person's life isn't a bad idea after all.

[Guest Guest]

No, I'm saying I can't live a responsible life without going to church and my parents taught me about God. Now as an adult I choose to go to church because it keeps me grounded. I say the pledge to honor all our service people and veterans who have put their lives on the line for our way of life. Our lives are measured by what we leave when we die. But our children have to be taught because they don't know anything when they come to us. Just like we teach them not to lie, not to hurt other people or animals, not to steal, we are also obligated to give them direction so they will be able to make up their own minds when they become adults. You are a good example. You're children think the way you do because you taught them that and by following what you taught them to think their lives have been impacted by that. My children have been taught the same things yours have, but in a different way. My children have been taught not to attack, but to change the things they don't like without hurting other people as your child did. In Vermont, I think the children who don't want to say the pledge should go to the gym and they will do that and think its great because they are getting out of class because children think only in the moment. Most have never met a veteran with no arms or legs, and most have never had a family member die due to war.

What a hypocrite! You say that we should change things without hurting others. Yet you honor soldiers who kill people in war. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

Meanwhile, you criticize a 16-year-old high school student who didn't harm anyone. All he did was reveal the truth about a teacher who was abusing his power. How is that hurting anyone?